1.2 Core plug replacement

[mark foster]

Hi, sadly I had a cooling hose split and badly overheated the engine on my 1.2 Lounge. the car was recovered and the garage is saying the engine has to come out to replace the coreplugs, this would be at great expense, in fact too much expense


Has anyone here successfully done this with engine in situ? I thought I might give it a go if possible.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi Mark. How thoroughly has the engine's condition been assessed? If you run water levels low in these wee fire engines they are very well known for blowing head gaskets - they really don't like getting too hot! If the engine has been seriously overheated, even if there are no signs of head gasket blowing right now you may well find it gives way in the near future.

Regarding the core plugs. I suppose it depends on which ones are leaking. I've had overheating and head gasket problems on these engines before without experiencing any core plug problems so your's must have got really hot - which makes gasket and maybe other damage even more likely.

Sorry to say but when an engine has been really "cooked" there are a whole host of "nasties" which can come out to bite you soon afterwards. Unless you can avoid labour charges by doing everything yourself, You might find sourcing a good used engine and just swapping it over will give a more satisfactory outcome in the long run.

 

[portland_bill]

As Jock says, overheating that would cause core plug issues will have done so much more damage, that the core plugs become irrelevant.

Is the garage recommending core plugs because that is what they do for every overheat, on any vehicle, or have they identified a specific problem? If a specific problem with a core plug has been found, the engine is almost certainly scrap.

You say a 1.2 Lounge, but not whether this is Panda or 500. Used engines are plentiful, but there are some detail differences that need the correct choice.
Panda (169) Lounge originally had a 1.2 60hp Euro3 (square oil cap), then changed to a Euro 4 (round oil cap and cam sensor), then the very last ones went to the 70hp with variable valve timing(I think these were Euro5, but the change to Euro 5 might not coincide exactly). I think that is when the cam sensor disappeared again, but not certain of this. This was the same engine spec as early 500s.
In later Pandas, and 500s the engine went to Euro 6. It is important to replace with the same spec engine, or the engine computer will not fuel it correctly.
Replacing the engine will cost a little more in labour than replacing the core plugs, as the ancillaries take more time to swap over than replacing the core plugs, plus of course the cost of the replacement engine. But that option brings the promise of reliability, trying to repair the overheated engine brings fear of further failures.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

This is all getting a bit academic because I think this car needs a new engine, but it occurs to me that if the core plugs are needing to be replaced due to being corroded through, rather than having "popped" due to the internal pressure of over heating, you may only need to replace one or two in which case, depending on which ones they are, you might be able to do just the ones which are leaking? However, thinking about this further, why would they have corroded through? maybe just because of age and road salt corroding from the outside? but also maybe because it's either never had it's coolant changed so the anti corrosion additives are no longer giving protection or perhaps it's been run with no, or only a very weak, antifreeze concentration so the plugs have corroded - which means other serious internal corrosion is possible?

Then there's the possibility that you may find corrosion of the block where the plugs are fitted - less likely on a cast iron block than an ally one admittedly - which might make renewing the plugs difficult or impossible?

In conclusion, I'd definitely attempt core plug replacement on something old and rare where spares are not readily available (one of my old Hillman Imps for instance) but on a Panda? - Probably not.

 

[s130]

I recall seeing that there are easy fit core plug replacements and expand to fit when a nut/bolt is tightened. As long as there is a couple out inches space for a spanner. No drifting or press fitting required.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/351172199017-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I recall seeing that there are easy fit core plug replacements and expand to fit when a nut/bolt is tightened. As long as there is a couple out inches space for a spanner. No drifting or press fitting required.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/351172199017-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

That's an interesting alternative. I've seen a similar, temporary, remedy for stripped sump plugs, don't know if I'd trust it long term for a core plug though where it's going to have to withstand much more pressure and maybe degradation of the expanding material of the plug?

 

[s130]

That's an interesting alternative. I've seen a similar, temporary, remedy for stripped sump plugs, don't know if I'd trust it long term for a core plug though where it's going to have to withstand much more pressure and maybe degradation of the expanding material of the plug?

I'm assuming that they use Nitrile rubber or similar which is heat and oil resistant. On our 130TC for over 30 years I have a hand made (myself) nitrile inlet manifold gasket and top cooling pipe gasket and all is still well.

The core plug inner/back lip faces would ideally need cleaning of any rough casting edges but after that I can't see a problem.

If they were to deteriorate they would seep leak and not just blow out. Also suspect that were the block water to freeze then the block would not be damaged either.

I would certainly give them a go if I were in the OP's position. Nothing to lose and certainly much cheaper than an engine out job.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

If they were to deteriorate they would seep leak and not just blow out. Also suspect that were the block water to freeze then the block would not be damaged either.

I would certainly give them a go if I were in the OP's position. Nothing to lose and certainly much cheaper than an engine out job.

Yup, I think I agree with you and, particularly given the circumstances, I think I'd be giving it a go in this instance.