Now I know I could online research this but thought I would ask here as some of you may already have the answer which will get a wider audience here.

So you have an EV vehicle that you want to charge at home.

The basic question is this. How do you, can you select that charging capability.

e.g. plug into a standard 13Amp supply (suitably cabled) and not attempt to draw more that 13Amps (or any other current limit).

Is this charge cable defined (by physical cable wiring) or a vehicle menu setting?

I believe the charging cables are "smart" so to speak they cables car and charging all speak to each other the decide the max charging rate

As such a cables wired to a 3pin plug will charge very slowly if at all

Hi
If it were me i would install a dedicated 40amp supply direct from fusebox
I'm pretty sure a spur for a charging point of your standard ring main would overload it if you were using every socket in the house and charging your car as well
Luigi

I think there are three choices.
Standard 13A plug. This takes forever to charge any EV. I think I saw somewhere that a Leaf will charge in about 13 hours, and I think the Leaf is about the weakest thing out
there. Low cost.
Separate 40A supply from your existing supply. This needs a new circuit, with its own breaker box. This gives faster charging, but still several hours. Many people use the cheap rate of a dual tariff, used to be called Economy7. Moderate cost.
3-phase supply to the house, to give a fast charge option. Needs your electricity supplier and the local network operator to put in the cables to give you all three phases, which can then feed a more powerful charging box. Don't know the power level, but I understand still not as powerful as the public superchargers. Expensive.

Well one advantage of lower charge rates will be lower battery temperature and an associated increased life span.

For many EVs used for local/town runs then a 60kWHr vehicle would take 20Hrs around. But with a 60kWHr EV typical mileage is say 200 miles. So a 20 mile per day usage is going to require 2 to 3 hours on a 13A supply. (2.9kW @ 220V). For a 10Hr overnight charge on a 13A supply is going to give one around 90 to 100 miles daily usage.

I see that for home charging one actually needs a charger unit typically costing £600 for a 3.6kW / 7kW. Ouch!

This also answers my question about charge rate delivery/overload. It would seem that one has to have a dedicated charging unit and just can't plug into a 13A domestic socket. Shame but I guess to be expected as manufactures strive to keep vehicle costs down and not have to worry about the world's different electricity supplies.

s130 said:

Well one advantage of lower charge rates will be lower battery temperature and an associated increased life span.

For many EVs used for local/town runs then a 60kWHr vehicle would take 20Hrs around. But with a 60kWHr EV typical mileage is say 200 miles. So a 20 mile per day usage is going to require 2 to 3 hours on a 13A supply. (2.9kW @ 220V). For a 10Hr overnight charge on a 13A supply is going to give one around 90 to 100 miles daily usage.

I see that for home charging one actually needs a charger unit typically costing £600 for a 3.6kW / 7kW. Ouch!

This also answers my question about charge rate delivery/overload. It would seem that one has to have a dedicated charging unit and just can't plug into a 13A domestic socket. Shame but I guess to be expected as manufactures strive to keep vehicle costs down and not have to worry about the world's different electricity supplies.

Click to expand...

So basically that what i was saying
You need a dedicated charging circuit and not just a 13anp supply which is clearly not suitable for most people
New property developers are being encouraged along with air source heat pump heating systems to install charging stations either on a drive of the house or dedicated parking zones for houses without drive ways or garages

You’ve 3 charging options at home, all are EVSE compliant:

Granny charging from a 3 pin 13 amp plug - will charge at 10amps, circa 2.2kw with its own inline EVSE control module

Slow charging - 16amp, circa 3.3kw via a dedicated wall unit

Fast charging - 32 amp, circa 6.5-7kw via a dedicated wall unit - these tend to be the most commonly fitted now that most EVs can AC charge at fast charging rates (early EVs such as the original leaf etc only has slow AC chargers fitted)

The above are all single phase. If you’ve 3 phase and get the relevant wall chargers fitted the 16amp setup can do 11kw and the 32amp 22kw fast charging, this is however providing the vehicle is capable and has a 3 phase charger fitted (not many do), otherwise you’ll get the single phase charging rates even on a 3 phase hookup.

Dedicated EV charging points will typically have their own feed direct from the consumer unit due to their draw, just like an electric shower, or oven etc.

As Mep says above.

You can charge an electric car from a 13Amp socket in your house but as the term implies "granny charging" it takes forever.

If you look at the charging socket on an electric car there are multiple connections in there and depending on what you plug into depends on which of those pins are used.

There are pins in the connector so the car can communicate with the charger.

If you are charging off one phase of a normal 13amp socket then the cable you use will tell the car that, it will connect the power to one of the AC inputs via the socket on the car and the power will trickle in at the max that a 13amp socket can provide. which at most is about 3KW, MEP says 2.2kw which is probably right for an electric car, you don't want 3KW flowing through the domestic supply for long periods as if there is any weakness you'll definitely find it that way. Probably ok to boil your kettle at 3KW for a couple of minutes without any problems.

Then you get a 16amp connection which I seem to think is a European thing? someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I know my dad bought a German made welding plant which was 16amps so he needed to upgrade the power supply to the garage. Here in the UK we don't generally have 16amp circuits.

Then you get a dedicated charger, these are usually a single phase and at the sort of power your electric cooker might have (7kw) 30-40 amp fuse. Usually if plugged into this the car again communicates with the charger and works out how safe the power supply is so as not to over heat anything. In some older houses I've heard that they installed 7KW chargers but the car is still only happy to charge at about 3kw.

Some old houses might only have a 30 - 40 amp master fuse so you won't be able to have anything as powerful as a 7kw charger, remembering this is the master fuse for the whole house so if you have a car charging at 3kw and you put your 3kw kettle on you're going to be ok but if the car is charging at 7kw and you put your 3 kw kettle on (10kw total) you're going to be drawing over 40 amps and will blow the master fuse.

The master fuse is there to protect the wiring so if you just put a larger fuse in (which would be against the law as the electricity company own the master fuse) then you risk burning out the wiring to the house.

If you have a newer house, then you might have a bigger master fuse I believe mine is 100amp but there are some newer houses with 80 amp.

a 100amp fuse is ideal as you can have a rapid (7kw) without any problems to the rest of the house electrics.

If you want anything faster than this then you'll need a 3 phase connection. basically every house is on one of the 3 phases used to transmit electricity across the country.
Some houses and many businesses have all 3 phases. In a house only one phase would be connected but the other two phases may be available.

With 3 phases you have 3 times the carrying capacity. 240v @ 30 amps is 7.2kw, 3 times that is 21.6kw. So thats where you get the high powered home ev chargers with "22KW"

The car has 3 connections for each of the 3 phases in the plug and the car works out how to make the most of the power given to it.

in all cases the charging cable used and the car decide how its going to use the power given to it, the charger provides the power and communicates with the car to tell the car the state of the supply.

There are lots of different connections they are not all standard, so some cars can't charge from a 3 phase 22kw charger, some can charge at way over and above 22kw with High powered DC connections that can't be installed at home and some older cars will charge very slowly even with more powerful chargers.


In response to the initial question the car will know its plugged into a 13 amp supply from the cable you use and it will communicate with the charging cable to know the state of the power supply and therefore not draw more than is safe to draw, it in any case would not draw more than 13 amps because that is the type of cable you are using
if it were plugged into anything else you'd use a different cable, and again using connections in the cable it would communicate with the charger to know what is safe to draw

From what I have read you can NOT directly connect to a 13A / 3Pin socket, let alone a typical 16A connection found on most caravan/camp sites.

You have to have a "charger unit" which can be connected to a 13A/16A/XXAmp unit. These unit cost £600 or more.

If anyone has an EV that plugs *directly* (via cable adaptor and not a charger unit) to a 13A 3Pin UK domestic socket then I would certainly like details:

Vehicle make, model, etc.

As such I don't see an issue with Granny Charging for many peoples EV usage.

Of course while I could possibly granny charge for most daily usage I certainly could not do this when towing a caravan to a site within/on a 100 mile radious, let alone our 3000+ mile trip to Itally every year. 1000 down in two days, 1000 back in two days and 1000+ miles once in Italy.

Another question/twist.

With a Hybrid it will run on petrol, electric or electric with the engine driving the charge regeneration process.

If you have an ALL electric EV then can you charge whilst driving? Not a stupid question because with a hatchback all EV I could have a 3/5/10kw generator in the rear of the car (suitably exhausted & cooled) allow me to drive AND charge when required whislt still motoring.

UK government may ban petrol car sales but their are many industries that rely on "portable generator power units". To my knowledge there is no legal restriction on running a generator in any vehicle.

So my 3000 mile trip to Italy towing becomes a possibily AND ALL using pure EV motive power.

s130 said:

From what I have read you can NOT directly connect to a 13A / 3Pin socket, let alone a typical 16A connection found on most caravan/camp sites.

You have to have a "charger unit" which can be connected to a 13A/16A/XXAmp unit. These unit cost £600 or more.

If anyone has an EV that plugs *directly* (via cable adaptor and not a charger unit) to a 13A 3Pin UK domestic socket then I would certainly like details:

Vehicle make, model, etc.

Click to expand...

It depends on the car.

My Outlander Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) comes with the charger built in. You need a lead to connect it to a supply. The supplied one plugs into a 13A (or 16A for some countries) domestic outlet and charges at a low rate. It is often mistaken for a chrger but is just a interface that "tells" the onboard charger how much current it can take and protection unit. For the Outlander 5-6 hours will give a full charge with about 24 miles genuine range. I can get to work at 7:30 put on charge (for free) it will be fully charged by 13:00 and that wll get me the 11 miles home and 11 miles back to work the next day, rinse and repeat. The previous generation Nisan Leaf came wth a similar 13A lead but took longer to get a full charge but would give 40-60 miles on a work day charge. There are two common slow charge leads type 1 and type 2. Type 2 locks in the car socket, the type one does not. The Outlander also has a Chademo fast charge connector. This allows 20-30 minutes for a full charge on a motorway service station type charger (Supercharger is a Tesla trade mark).
13A charging is OK for a small EV, not much use for a big Tesla etc.
Edit,

Any car with a Type 1 or Type 2 connector can be charged from a 13A., 16A or 32A outlet with just a lead. Here is one for a Corsa E
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324117911583?
Note it is not a charger, it indicates the current rating and connets 240V AC to the car via a circuit breaker.
32A "commando" CEE plug to Type 1
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114844112368

Robert G8RPI.

Wow! Thanks Robert. So some vehicles DO come with a simple 13A 3Pin capability.

This is really go to know.

I guess over time as each of us actually do real research etc. in view to *actually* buying any specific make/model we (me included) will be as assuming/speculating/*hoping* for good news etc.

s130 said:

Another question/twist.

With a Hybrid it will run on petrol, electric or electric with the engine driving the charge regeneration process.

If you have an ALL electric EV then can you charge whilst driving? Not a stupid question because with a hatchback all EV I could have a 3/5/10kw generator in the rear of the car (suitably exhausted & cooled) allow me to drive AND charge when required whislt still motoring.

UK government may ban petrol car sales but their are many industries that rely on "portable generator power units". To my knowledge there is no legal restriction on running a generator in any vehicle.

So my 3000 mile trip to Italy towing becomes a possibily AND ALL using pure EV motive power.

Click to expand...

No, if only for the practical reason that the charger is interlocked to the controls so you can't drive off and rip the cable out.
More technically a pure EV will have no means of connecting a charger and a motor to the battery at the same time because it does not need too. You could possibly modify the car to allow charging on the move, but if you get it wrong it could be pretty spectacular if not fatal.

Robert G8RPI.

Thanks Robert

As I retired electrical engineer were I involved in EV then your mentioned "disconnect" would be right up there on my safety issues lists. That said I pose these questions in the open to get people educated and thinking.

EV is so new, so not discussed then every little bit of input/question/etc. serves us all well.

The modern* EV is new and evolving. It's hard to keep up and there seems to be very little reliable technical information out there.

Robert G8RPI
*new as in not using lead acid batteries or brushed DC motors.

These days you can buy a 3 pin plug for several different electric cars from places like Amazon or screwfix there is nothing special a about it, it’s just a plug that tells the car the limit of what the supply will provide.

There is a pin on all Evs in the charging port that tells the car it is plugged in, this prevent the car moving when on charge, if on charge the car is immobilised but if that pin is not connected the car won’t charge.

So I don’t think you’ll be able to do you plan of putting a generator in the boot.
That said something like a Tesla model 3 on a 3 pin plug (3600kw) would charge at about 12miles of range per 1 hour of being plugged in.
A 3.6kw generator is about £1000 and weighs about 70kg so for the power it adds to the battery it probably uses half that if not more lugging that extra weight.

s130 said:

From what I have read you can NOT directly connect to a 13A / 3Pin socket, let alone a typical 16A connection found on most caravan/camp sites.

Click to expand...

As mentioned by others ANY EV can be charged from a 3 pin plug if you’ve the correct granny lead. But it’s awfully slow, only gaining around 6-8 miles of range an hour vs 18-24 miles of range in an hour on a dedicated 32amp fast charge domestic or public unit.

My 27kwh Kia Soul takes approx 4hrs 15min 0-100% on a fast charger like that I’ve got at home, vs 14 hours on a 3 pin.

Now times that by 2.5 for the new Kias with 64kwh battery packs and suddenly a 3pin is very inconvenient if you’re regularly needing to use most of your charge each day.

Yes I've looked and those 13A 3-Pin leads actually have a charger unit in-line. So £150 instead of a wall mounted charger unit at some £500.

Yes appreciate 13A charging is slow but for many who only go shopping locally etc. then slow charging is not an issue.

s130 said:

Yes I've looked and those 13A 3-Pin leads actually have a charger unit in-line.

Click to expand...

Technically the charger is built into the car, the inline box is an EVSE Protocol comms unit.