Whilst looking for diagnostics on other models, I came across a warning about future Fiat Group models locking out aftermarket diagnostics.
Below is the quote from the Gendan website, but this is mirrored on scantool-direct.

** Important - 2018+ model year coverage: **
Please note - some 2018 model year vehicles have a "security gateway" module (SGW). The SGW module blocks any diagnostic tool from executing commands on the vehicle (e.g. actuations, procedures and even clearing of DTCs). It is currently not possible to access these vehicles with anything other than FIAT group's dealership tools, without modifying the vehicle.
Vehicles known to be affected so far include MY2018 500X/Renegade, 500L MCA, Doblo, Giulia/Stelvio.

I'm thinking this is contrary to EOBD legislation.

I can understand why any manufacturer wishes to lock owners into the dealer network, to keep dealers viable. But making older vehicles expensive just to diagnose will make them cheap to buy, and scrapped earlier. Residual values plummet, new sales fall, and the manufacturer disappears from the market.

Hopefully MES will find a way around it sometime, or legislators will outlaw it.

portland_bill said:

Whilst looking for diagnostics on other models, I came across a warning about future Fiat Group models locking out aftermarket diagnostics.
Below is the quote from the Gendan website, but this is mirrored on scantool-direct.

** Important - 2018+ model year coverage: **
Please note - some 2018 model year vehicles have a "security gateway" module (SGW). The SGW module blocks any diagnostic tool from executing commands on the vehicle (e.g. actuations, procedures and even clearing of DTCs). It is currently not possible to access these vehicles with anything other than FIAT group's dealership tools, without modifying the vehicle.
Vehicles known to be affected so far include MY2018 500X/Renegade, 500L MCA, Doblo, Giulia/Stelvio.

I'm thinking this is contrary to EOBD legislation.

I can understand why any manufacturer wishes to lock owners into the dealer network, to keep dealers viable. But making older vehicles expensive just to diagnose will make them cheap to buy, and scrapped earlier. Residual values plummet, new sales fall, and the manufacturer disappears from the market.

Hopefully MES will find a way around it sometime, or legislators will outlaw it.

Click to expand...

Picked up on this earlier in the year when "Twink" suffered her Turbo Hiccup. The Very nice SEAT Assist man who attended and I (myself) had some in depth conversation about a lot of "things SEAT" and one of them was that when I mentioned my VCDS diagnostic tool (attempting to impress him!) he said - of course there are certain tasks on your new car which you wont be able to do as it requires a factory link and in future you probably wont be able to gain access at all with just the likes of your VCDS! - Then I became aware of the FIAT situation when I read someone else's post on the subject about a month or so ago. Thanks for your contribution here PB. I'll be having a look at the Gendan site later today and Ross Tech (The VCDS developer) as well. I must also call in on the AVW lads and see how this is going to affect their operation as an independent.

Twinkle is the first entirely new car I have owned in a very long time. Mostly I buy at 18 months to 2 years old if it's my main car which I'm going to need to be reliable and I buy on condition and how much it interests me if it is a run around/hobby vehicle. I have been surprised at how "emasculated" it has made me feel owning a vehicle which, for the last almost 3 years, I have been wary of touching in case I invalidate Warranty! I am not going to feel "married" to her until the warranty period is over in about 2 months time (although thank goodness I had it as the turbo replacement would have decimated the bank balance otherwise!). I am now, having found out about this ridiculous situation, probably never going to buy a "new" vehicle again and will be looking very carefully at the diagnostic prospects of any future purchase. - At my age I should be able to continue to buy something reliable until I'm banned from driving! which reminds me, I've got to reapply for my driving licence renewal again this year, for the second time - every 3 years now!
Jock

Basic information about the SGW (Secure Gateway) is indeed true.

On early Fiat 2018 implementations the module can be bypassed by removing it and replacing it with some form of patch adapter. However the module is deeply buried behind the dash making it no easily and readily accessibly. Also I understand that once replaced then the Fiat kit will no longer work so for cars under warranty one should leave well alone.

As to the extent of what is possible to do with the likes of MES and other more expensive independent kit I've not seen a reliable appraisal.

One would hope that the reading of EODB fault codes and resetting EOBD fault codes will still be possible after all basic EOBD is a legal requirement for emissions testing etc. so (especially in the US) Fiat can not expect government agencies to exclusively buy and use Fiat kit.

A point to note the EOBD regulations/standards only extend the generic and basic set of Engine On Board Diagnostics. Manufacturer specific stuff is not covered. Neither are all the other ECUs in the vehicle (ABS, Aircon, Body Computer, etc).

From what I can gather it is still very early days as to how this will all pan out. Also the SGW in Fiats is considered to be a "quick security fix" to stop EOBD port tampering / vehicle theft etc. and it is expected that the SGW function will at some stage be more deeply embedding and integrated into the ECU systems themselves as opposed to some convenient production hack. I'm led to believe that one manufacturer has made their EOBD system port inactive unless the bonnet is open.

And then we have to consider the car insurance business. Some insurance companies for cheaper insurance or risk drivers use EOBD port for driver monitoring, speeding, etc, etc.

I'm all for security and if FIAT, BMW, VW etc. focus on blocking key/transponder programming, ECU map/function modifications, remote starting etc. by "ring fencing" these areas from all the other functional diagnostic stuff then great. That is what they should all be planning to do long term. Meanwhile I suspect we are going to have a collection of half bake solutions that is going to cause real pain in the industry.

All those independent dealers covering multiple brands are not going to be interested in paying thousands of pounds to Fiat when Fiats will be low volume compared to the other makes that go through their workshops. You could argue that this is going to be good news for the independent Fiat/FCA specialist but from a customer point of view these great guys are few and in many cases many many miles from where you live or work.

Will only take a few bad stories to emerge in the press before Fiats are no longer bought and sales plummet. For this reason alone I think, hope things will pan out to be far better than our worst fears.

This makes an interesting read re: SGW. People are going ballistic in the US.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CarHacking/comments/73qs0x/chrysler_sgw_security_gateway/

Looks like certainly in the US the independent diagnostic guys complained but FCA just ignored them.

I also note the comment about 2021 and "Authentication And Encryption for SAE J1939 And Other CAN Bus Protocols".

Looks like the future is bleak for us who care, maintain and look after our cars ourselves.

Worse still is for us classic car owners. Are the likes of Fiat/VW/BMW/….. going to keep their systems active etc. to support 30 year old cars. No bloody way. Fiat are very poor at this. Ferrari brilliant but at what cost.

Bring back the steam engine I say. It may huff and it may puff but there is not an electrical or electronic component in sight and everybody loves a good fairground traction unit. "Toot Toot"

Well I checked out a local multi franchise independent garage and the following came to light.

1) Their major customer base is Mercedes/BMW/VW and then Ford and GM. Fiat and Alfa are few and far between

2) Were they to have to invest and pay Mercedes/BMW/VW/Ford/GM for vehicle system access etc. then they would consider each on it's business/financial merits. So for them Fiat any many other makes are not worth the investment

3) Having said what this workshop/business manager said he also told me he has an appointment with a diagnostic kit manufacturer to sell/buy their kit supposedly (for subscription to them and price unknown) to access all the major manufacturer systems (including Fiat) instead of having to take up individual manufacturer subscriptions.

The guy I spoke to seemed pretty savvy as he explained what I've said he also dropped the "not another salesman promising something"!

So time will tell how this all pans out.