Hi all. This is going to be a bit of a long one but very interested to hear people's opinions. Also this is not necessarily related to fiat but the motor industry in general.
Would love to hear both technicians thoughts and the public's.

Today I carried out a training course on advanced driver assistance systems. ADAS for short. Long and short of it the camera and radar systems on new cars. I was taught the calibration after any work carried out.

I was personally unaware of how much these systems will Impact both the DIYer and aftermarket garage. Long and short of it now is any work carried out that effects either the steering or geometry of a vehicle the camera MUST be recalibrated. If you have a geometry reset and no calibration of the ADAS afterwards and an accident occurs where the ADAS did not operated correctly the garage that carried out the geometry (wheel alignment) is left liable and can also cause issues for your insurance. You may not be insured.

Also next issue is any suspension component. E.g broken spring, worn suspension arm, track rods. All must be calibrated. Even removing your bumper. Radars are in the front bumper on most VAG vehicles now. The cost for all this is easily going to be reaching 1000s on fairly common issues. Let's face it UK roads are bad as it is knocking geometry out.

I'm all for safer vehicles that DO save lives. However the industry is heading towards people just owning cars for 3-4 years as it's first mot could cost over 1000 pounds just for wear and tear items and a new lease vehicle can be had for 2-3k a year now. People just won't take the risk buying older cars. They are becoming a throw away item. Also this may effect DIYer as parts companies may become under pressure to not sell parts to the public.

Sorry for the rant but wondered what people's thoughts were? Is it the right step and people are happier with just leasing and renewing or is it a concern to them?

You're wondering what my thoughts are? Not printable for a start! Thank goodness my passion is for older machines (be they cars, motor cycles, horticultural machines, or whatever). The newest car in the family is my 2016 Ibiza - newest car I've ever owned - My boys are not able to afford new vehicles so this problem shouldn't affect them for some time as I'll be able to look after their older vehicles 'till I drop (I'm in my 70's now) and then it won't matter to me any more! With a bit of "luck" I'll die before the supply of good old Bangers runs out!

I suppose a lot of this radar type stuff is getting developed because it will be fundamental to self driving cars. I get great satisfaction out of maintaining my own, and the family, cars and when I'm cruising down the road with the engine purring and everything running "just right" it gives me a good feeling. When I can no longer work on my cars I think a lot of the joy and satisfaction of driving them will go.

Isn't this what faces the Japanese with their super strict equivalent to the MOT? I believe most of them sell their cars on when the big MOT is due (at five years I think?) Which fuelled our Grey imports?

Two thoughts immediately come to mind. Firstly, my boys - or their wives who also run cars - won't be able to afford their own transport and with shift work and difficult work locations this will make it hard on 3 of them. The second is, My youngest boy started his own signwriting business a couple of years ago. He has been working out of his Astra Estate up 'till now but is just about to buy a van (Standard size Transit sort of thing) Presumably this radar tech will soon appear in vans and then what? repair costs go through the roof. These costs get passed on. All the rest of us end up paying through the nose to cover the extra cost experienced by the plumber, electrician, gardener, parcel delivery, etc etc.

The legal and financial implications of a DIY disaster aren't even imaginable.

Please don't feel responsible when you read that I've thrown myself off the Forth Bridge. Only thing is it could take me some time to decide which one as we have 3 to choose from now (2 road and one rail) Oh silly me! of course it would have to be the old rail bridge to do it in any sort of style!

Thanks for your very interesting Post. I have read one short article about recalibrating ADAS in the "Professional Motor Mechanic" magazine which I pick up from time to time in the factors, but have to admit that I really didn't know what ADAS was or that it might need recalibrating.

Note to self - Make sure not to buy anything with ADAS!

Again thanks so much for making us all aware of this development - all part of what makes this Forum so interesting!

Kind regards
Jock

P.S. Thank goodness I'm retired and don't make my living at this any more. The legal implications sound like another "sword of Damocles" hanging over the heads of those in "the trade"

From a personal standpoint - echoing some of what Jock says (not all though as he does tend to haver a bit ), I'm not looking to buy a new car ever. I'll always buy used and always with a view to being able to service it myself, and I likely will continue to do so until I'm either incapable of maintaining them myself, driving them, or self-driven vehicles become the standard.

My main, personal, issue with ADAS, etc, is that it provides the driver with a level of security and comfort you oughtn't have while in control of a 1,000+kg bomb travelling at 70mph. The more control is taken away from the driver (whilst not being completely driverless), the more the drivers become complacent and start doing stupid things (like texting) while they should be concentrating on the other idiots sharing the blacktop with them...

Eklipze3k said:

From a personal standpoint - echoing some of what Jock says (not all though as he does tend to haver a bit ), I'm not looking to buy a new car ever. I'll always buy used and always with a view to being able to service it myself, and I likely will continue to do so until I'm either incapable of maintaining them myself, driving them, or self-driven vehicles become the standard.

My main, personal, issue with ADAS, etc, is that it provides the driver with a level of security and comfort you oughtn't have while in control of a 1,000+kg bomb travelling at 70mph. The more control is taken away from the driver (whilst not being completely driverless), the more the drivers become complacent and start doing stupid things (like texting) while they should be concentrating on the other idiots sharing the blacktop with them...

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Oh aye, very good at the havering I'm afraid! I plead senility.

However I'll honour you by saying I agree with everything you are saying. Although I did buy a new car when a younger version of myself worked briefly in sales (it was an unpopular colour, had been in stock for ever and heavily discounted) all my other vehicles have been 2nd hand (we don't say that any more these days do we? has to be "used" or "preowned" - that's a good one) for financial, self servicing and repair reasons. Two years ago we bought the Ibiza new hoping for reliability as we had several journeys per year to make down south. I think it's been the right decision for that reason but financially, compared to all my other cars, it's been expensive. I will not now buy another completely new car.

I also thoroughly endorse your observations about the ADAS. There are just too many distractions with Mobile Phones, Touch screens etc etc now a days. 100% concentration is fundamental, all the time you're behind the wheel, on being totally in control and you're just too coddled, insulated and full of a sense of false security in modern cars. I think some of the reason is, as was said in another thread by someone, that cars have become like white goods now. A great many people have no pride of ownership or interest in their cars and even less pride in their driving standards. Rude impatient behaviour is common, even a wee wave of the hand if you give way to another is becoming increasingly rare these days. Driving a lot in heavy city traffic, as I do, I don't think I ever take more than the shortest of journeys without seeing someone on a mobile, usually texting. Last night we missed a complete change of traffic lights as the driver of the car at the head of the queue (one in front of me, ie I was third car in the line) was obviously texting and completely missed the lights even though the woman in front of us tooted twice! I contemplated getting out and remonstrating with this person but decided not too. Probably I'd only be accused of assault of some type or who knows what?

Yes a mine field. I was looking at the calibration procedures for a 500X with just a simple lane departure system and I'm glad I have none of this mumbo jumbo on my car.

Even the simple parking sensors now fitted as standard to just about every production car are a potential issue. They don't need calibrating etc. but drivers come to rely on them and they are far from perfect. Issues include poor to very poor performance at low / freezing temperatures and normal detection of some common obstacles like narrow posts.

s130 said:

Yes a mine field. I was looking at the calibration procedures for a 500X with just a simple lane departure system and I'm glad I have none of this mumbo jumbo on my car.

Even the simple parking sensors now fitted as standard to just about every production car are a potential issue. They don't need calibrating etc. but drivers come to rely on them and they are far from perfect. Issues include poor to very poor performance at low / freezing temperatures and normal detection of some common obstacles like narrow posts.

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Elderly sister in law, even older than us, did a lot of damage when she reversed into a bollard (might have been a lamp post - I wasn't actually there). I think the problem is that once you come to trust the sensors you go faster so, if they don't tell you to stop, them contact is made with much greater force. Without the sensors you would be "feeling" your way much more slowly and carefully so if contact is made you are already expecting to stand on the brakes?