DPF Problem - Is this a feasible solution?
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DPF Problem - Is this a feasible solution?
There are a number people/tuners offering DPF and EGR bypass modifications. If both ECU code is changed and the filter removed(bored out) and EGR properly blanked off then I've not heard of or seen and definitive cases where any damage has been done to the engine.
Don't know of anybody on the Fiat Forum who has gone down this route yet, but some Alfa Romeo Forum members have done so it may be worth a look there.
Don't know of anybody on the Fiat Forum who has gone down this route yet, but some Alfa Romeo Forum members have done so it may be worth a look there.
On my SEATCUPRA.net forum a lot of people have done both, the only problem is long term and how the MOT stns. will be testingin the future which may fail the modified cars. .................................?!@:bang:
volvo_saint
Member
I dont have a by pass pipe but I did remove the DPF filter from my system on my SEDICI 1.9 Multi-Jet to make the car driveable again.
So far I have the following observations:
1. Error Code P1205 - DPF full (92% - even though its no longer there)
2. Regeneration every 50 miles
3. I have noticed an increase in the oil level.
4. Also Error Code P2453 - which I cannot work out yet...
5. Fuel Consumption has decreased to a level I never achieved before!
So far I have the following observations:
1. Error Code P1205 - DPF full (92% - even though its no longer there)
2. Regeneration every 50 miles
3. I have noticed an increase in the oil level.
4. Also Error Code P2453 - which I cannot work out yet...
5. Fuel Consumption has decreased to a level I never achieved before!
Code P2453 = Diesel Particulate Filter Pressure Sensor A Circuit Range / Performance
Regeneration every 50 miles and increased oil level go together. YOUR OIL IS BEING DILUTED BY EXCESS DIESEL FUEL. YOUR ENGINE WILL BE DAMAGED AND ULTIMATELY SIEZE.
volvo_saint
Member
The sensor reading for the DPF is 93% full - so I imagine this is triggering the REGEN cycle.
Does anyone know what happens if I do a forced REGEN without the DPF being in place?
The aim is to reduce that reading of 93% full - which is weird since there is no DPF currently installled.....
Changed the oil today just to be on safe side.......
Does anyone know what happens if I do a forced REGEN without the DPF being in place?
The aim is to reduce that reading of 93% full - which is weird since there is no DPF currently installled.....
Changed the oil today just to be on safe side.......
93% isn't high, seen many read >140%
s130 is correct, oil dilution and rising oil level will lead to engine destruction.
s130 is correct, oil dilution and rising oil level will lead to engine destruction.
volvo_saint
Member
Does anyone know why the regeneration takes place although the filter is actually missing and the back pressure is minimal?
Somewhere else we have discussed the DPF removal. Sorry but don't have link but I'm sure you can find them.
I don't know for fact what the ECU / DPF code is doing and looking for but from what has been discussed and 'applied logic' then I would suspect the following is going on.
1) ignition on, ECU starts up
2) expects atmospheric pressure on DPF pressure feeds and thus near zero differential pressure
3) when the engine starts it will then expect greater than atmospheric pressure on DPF pressure feeds and a positive differential pressure
4) will track off and running values with time looking for abnormal conditions
With modern ECUs just removing / blocking /blanking / removing an item/component/actuator is probably certain to throw a fault.
Once the ECU has a fault registered then how it performs/acts after that is open for debate.
Your case could be that the ECU thinks the DPF is blocked or not functioning correctly so it is deciding to do regenerates to see if that recovers the problem.
What would you do?
D4nny8oy
Established member
There are 2 levels of clogging. At the first level, which your ECU believes it is at, the system performs a regen to reduce the clogging to a more acceptable level. Because your DPF isn't there anymore, the readings aren't changing which makes the ECU perform another regen, and another, and so the cycle continues endlessly (with high levels of oil dilution with the fuel which gets into the sump).
2nd level of clogging is when the DPF is too blocked for a normal regen to clear it, the EOBD lamp will illuminate with a fault, and the vehicle will need to visit the Dealer for a Forced regen.
it is because you have not modified the ECU S/W to remove ALL x ref to DPF regen [ there is s/w on on the www web to delete these s/w instruction lines - but it is not a task anyone can do.
The VAG marque cars are well covered for DPF delete mods, there must be a compedant Fiat tuner who can do this???
. The down side to all this is the new MOT regs due in soon which will check the function of the DPF!! [ present > 56 plated are NOT tested properly for the DPF function yet]
Looks like I need to read up on the VOSA website regarding these proposed DPF testing regs.
Fortunately I'm on a 56 plate which is hopefully outside the window. Euro 4 and if required DPF was NOT legally required in the EU till Jan 2009 I believe.
Fiat in 2005 were well ahead of the game with DPF and Euro 4 Diesel compliance.
Fortunately I'm on a 56 plate which is hopefully outside the window. Euro 4 and if required DPF was NOT legally required in the EU till Jan 2009 I believe.
Fiat in 2005 were well ahead of the game with DPF and Euro 4 Diesel compliance.
volvo_saint
Member
Took another reading on the DPF filter and now its 105% full - it appears the ECU software does not take any actual readings but just increments the value of the DPF clogging by a formula.
Tried to actuate a REGEN using FIATECUSCAN but that did not work. The backpressure from the DPF is around 30 millibars....
System is trying a REGEN every 50 miles.....with the DPF missing.
I guess one solution is to re-program the ECU....
Tried to actuate a REGEN using FIATECUSCAN but that did not work. The backpressure from the DPF is around 30 millibars....
System is trying a REGEN every 50 miles.....with the DPF missing.
I guess one solution is to re-program the ECU....
OP
OP
No offence but I would assume that should have been obvious. If you have removed the DPF then you also need to remove any reference to it in the ECU programming.volvo_saint
Member
If a forced REGEN is done - does anyone know if this will clear the value of the DPF obstruction?
Which tool (apart from a dealer) can I use to activate a forced Regeneration of the DPF?
Which tool (apart from a dealer) can I use to activate a forced Regeneration of the DPF?
I dont understand this...why not just leave the system alone, its there for a reason. If there is a fault in the system get it repaired.....or am I missing something here
I'm assuming you are still referring to your car which has had the DPF removed, or are you looking to recover your original DPF.
Assuming no DPF, then a forced regen may initially clear the DPF readings but they will certainly return very quickly.
FiatECUScan (http://fiatecuscan.net/) can do this. Basic software is free but you need to buy some hardware.
A KKL interface you can get for less than £20.
Not wanting to question you, but I'm not sure where you are going with this DPF thread.
If you have removed your DPF then you have only two options.
1) have the ECU reprogrammed
2) fool the ECU to thinking a DPF is still fitted.
On point 2) I and others have speculated ways to do this in this/other threads. However none of us have tried them because we don't need to YET.
Unless you make some serious steps in 1) or 2) then apart from huge ammounts of lost time then you seriously risk damaging you engine.
An ECU reprogram will cost £200 to £500. A new DPF £800 to £1500. It is IMHO getting to the point in time where you have to bite the bullet and choose a solution.
This is all new ground for many of us here. I'm well experienced, have software and hardware experience, am electronics/software engineer by training, with plenty of kit such as electonic vacuum/pressure guages, meters, scopes & signal generators etc. etc.
I don't have a DPF issue (yet) but have offered ideas / suggestions as have others and we are getting close to the point not being to help you any further. If I hit a DPF problem then I'll be fired up to investigate in greater detail but at the moment I/we have no need and YOU are nearer the "front" than we are.
Assuming no DPF, then a forced regen may initially clear the DPF readings but they will certainly return very quickly.
FiatECUScan (http://fiatecuscan.net/) can do this. Basic software is free but you need to buy some hardware.
A KKL interface you can get for less than £20.
Not wanting to question you, but I'm not sure where you are going with this DPF thread.
If you have removed your DPF then you have only two options.
1) have the ECU reprogrammed
2) fool the ECU to thinking a DPF is still fitted.
On point 2) I and others have speculated ways to do this in this/other threads. However none of us have tried them because we don't need to YET.
Unless you make some serious steps in 1) or 2) then apart from huge ammounts of lost time then you seriously risk damaging you engine.
An ECU reprogram will cost £200 to £500. A new DPF £800 to £1500. It is IMHO getting to the point in time where you have to bite the bullet and choose a solution.
This is all new ground for many of us here. I'm well experienced, have software and hardware experience, am electronics/software engineer by training, with plenty of kit such as electonic vacuum/pressure guages, meters, scopes & signal generators etc. etc.
I don't have a DPF issue (yet) but have offered ideas / suggestions as have others and we are getting close to the point not being to help you any further. If I hit a DPF problem then I'll be fired up to investigate in greater detail but at the moment I/we have no need and YOU are nearer the "front" than we are.
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DPF'swill tumble in price...few years back a cat convertor would set you back £4-500 now you can pick them up for a fifth of this amount!
volvo_saint
Member
I will get a KKL inteface and attempt a forced Regeneration myself. Will be interesting to see if I can clear the value/reduce the value of the DPF unit obstruction.
volvo_saint
Member
I am unable to activate a REGEN with FIATECUSCAN using a KKL interface.
To activate a REGEN would I need a ELM interface?
To activate a REGEN would I need a ELM interface?
