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Old 27-11-2006   #1
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Changing only steering tie rods possible?

Hello guys,
2 days ago I went ti Fiat dealer because of a noise in the front.they told me that a tie rod needs replacement.The problem is they can't replace that tie rod because they dont sell that part separately,only with the steering box.I found the part at SWAG and ask them if they can replace it.The answer was that FIAT doesn't recomend to do that.Is that so hard to change a tie rod??????Can I expect tehnical problems if i change only the steering tie rod and not the steering box completely?
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Old 27-11-2006   #2
Whaddya mean too old?
 
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Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

Firstly, I would get a second opinion on whether it is the tie rod that is worn and not something like the track rod end. Without taking the tie rod end boot off so you could actually see the wear, it would be difficult to detect whether it's the tie rod or the rack internals that are worn

Changing the tie rod isn't too difficult when the rack is out and on the bench but in situ it's difficult to get the leverage without stressing the rack internals. If it is the tie rod then most likely there is wear in other parts of the rack too, that's probably why they replace the whole rack, quicker and cheaper in the long run. It'll also be why you may find it impossible to buy just the tie rod from Fiat
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If you can get to it and get the leverage to undo the retaining collar then there's nothing to stop anyone just changing the tie rod but getting the grip and space to move in situ is the problem. There'll be some kind of locking tab or lockpin to remove too and there's not a lot of space in there so it'll mean removing the rack for access and one might as well replace it

Check first though that it is the tie rod end gone, antiroll bar bushes make a similar noise over bumps and there's more people with them gone than tie rod ends
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Last edited by Deckchair5; 27-11-2006 at 16:51.
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Old 27-11-2006   #3
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Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

Quote Originally Posted by *alex*
Hello guys,
2 days ago I went ti Fiat dealer because of a noise in the front.they told me that a tie rod needs replacement.The problem is they can't replace that tie rod because they dont sell that part separately,only with the steering box.I found the part at SWAG and ask them if they can replace it.The answer was that FIAT doesn't recomend to do that.Is that so hard to change a tie rod??????Can I expect tehnical problems if i change only the steering tie rod and not the steering box completely?
what does the noise sound like?
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Old 27-11-2006   #4
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Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

Deckchair5: excellent answer, but I feel some confusion may be imminent over what is meant by 'tie-rod'. In this part of the world, 'tie-rod' describes the part that you call a 'track-rod'. The tie-rod end is the bit with the balljoint that is threaded on to the rack end. I just wonder whether this might apply to the locale of *alex*. (good name, by the way)

Anyway I agree that the balljoint-end (whatever you want to call it!) should be replaced first, as it's surely 10:1 that it would be worn out first. The only reason I can think of for FIAT not replacing this as a separate part (routine on other cars) is that perhaps they don't expect it to be worn out on cars that are 4-5 years old at most.

Rather than a noise, I would have expected the first complaint to be a knock in the steering?

-Alex
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Old 27-11-2006   #5
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Cool Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

[quote=alexGS]Deckchair5: excellent answer, but I feel some confusion may be imminent over what is meant by 'tie-rod'. In this part of the world, 'tie-rod' describes the part that you call a 'track-rod'. The tie-rod end is the bit with the balljoint that is threaded on to the rack end. I just wonder whether this might apply to the locale of *alex*. (good name, by the way)

Anyway I agree that the balljoint-end (whatever you want to call it!) should be replaced first, as it's surely 10:1 that it would be worn out first. The only reason I can think of for FIAT not replacing this as a separate part (routine on other cars) is that perhaps they don't expect it to be worn out on cars that are 4-5 years old at most.

Rather than a noise, I would have expected the first complaint to be a knock in the steering?

-Alex[/quote

Well it confused me as Alex PMd me for some advise and said tie bar which I took for the ones between the strut and anti roll bar then I saw this thread and realized that he was refering to the rack and not those tie bars I have PMd him back to make this clearer
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Old 28-11-2006   #6
Whaddya mean too old?
 
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Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

Yes that's why i put a picture up (picture tells a thousand words and all that).

Here, we mostly refer to the outer tie rod as a "track rod end" as it goes on the end of the rod and is used to adjust the tracking (logical)

Equally, i can't imagine any garage saying they don't change track rod ends as a separate item as it's a common wear item, as we know

Anyway, here's the beasties

Track rod end
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10 - easy to change- 10 min job

Tie rod
Click image for larger version

Name:	tie rod.JPG
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ID:	21372
Can't buy separately - right pig to change - guessing 100-200 to change rack

NB Need to check tracking after changing either item
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Old 28-11-2006   #7
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Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

Thanks for advices guys.I will take a look myself and see witch parts are worn.I forgot to tell you that there is a knock when I steer with the car standing still.Another thing happens sometimes when I brake,I can feel (thru the steering wheel)something moving in the front and it's not a little vibration.
Don't think the brake discs are the cause of that.
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Old 28-11-2006   #8
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Cool Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

Just catching up with this thread been busy this morning my garage up and over door came off when I tried to close it and after much huffing and puffing I'm now waiting for a guy to call anyway in my short 3yrs in the motor trade the part would have been called a control arm and back in my day you could change them easily once the rack is off but nowadays we have a throw away society and you have to buy the whole part IE the rack ..I have even repaired one while out on a race day when it failed scrutineering hammer and cold chisel worked wonders
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Old 28-11-2006   #9
Whaddya mean too old?
 
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Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

"Thanks for advices guys.I will take a look myself and see witch parts are worn.I forgot to tell you that there is a knock when I steer with the car standing still.Another thing happens sometimes when I brake,I can feel (thru the steering wheel)something moving in the front and it's not a little vibration."
Could be either from your description- track rod end or steering rod. Put your hand on the joint and get someone to rock the steering a bit and you should feel where the wear is worst. Watch your fingers though


PNL
Sounds like it's time for the up and over heavy gang

Last time i changed a steering tie rod i had to drill out a locking dowel, not a chance of doing that in situ.
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Last edited by Deckchair5; 28-11-2006 at 16:09.
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Old 28-11-2006   #10
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Cool Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

Heres another tip for you Decks if you have a track rod end thats a little bit worn take of the rubber boot and hammer down around the shroud slightly covering the ball and peg of the joint instant tightening did that on a track day also and past the scrututineer well not much chance hellfrauds being open near a grass track is there
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Old 28-11-2006   #11
Whaddya mean too old?
 
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Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

On older minis you could take out the upper and lower ball joints, remove a few shims, grease em up and be on your way again. Almost last forever.


Have you noticed that track rod ends which face down last a lot longer than the ones facing up, grit, water and ball joints don't mix so well. Thing is, once they start to wear then the contact surface is usually getting bad and sloppy(a bit like that girl i was talking to last night)
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Old 28-11-2006   #12
It's about GO! not SHOW!
 
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Talking Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

Quote Originally Posted by Deckchair5
Thing is, once they start to wear then the contact surface is usually getting bad and sloppy(a bit like that girl i was talking to last night)
Sounds like you were more than talking to her Decks
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Old 28-11-2006   #13
Whaddya mean too old?
 
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Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

That's the problem with this cross dressing thing these days, you just don't know who you're talking to
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Old 28-11-2006   #14
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Cool Re: Changing only steering tie rods possible?

Quote Originally Posted by Deckchair5
On older minis you could take out the upper and lower ball joints, remove a few shims, grease em up and be on your way again. Almost last forever.


Have you noticed that track rod ends which face down last a lot longer than the ones facing up, grit, water and ball joints don't mix so well. Thing is, once they start to wear then the contact surface is usually getting bad and sloppy(a bit like that girl i was talking to last night)
Yep I can remember the mini ball joints one came in one day for a service and had them replaced by another garage and it was unscrewing idiots forgot to knock over the lock tabs and remember the rear radius arm bearings clickady click over bumps simply drill out the arms tap a thread and insert a nipple [no not that type dirty little buggers these young members ]and pump them full of gease pity we cant go back there isnt it
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