NumanR said:

ABZ as well as being a DET for fiat I also own a stilo, its also irrelevant how many cars are still with original owners as our database follows the cars and also the customers seperately, Fiat also update our database with any updates they have.
Regarding the "explosive history", how many non franchise garages/owners would know about spring failure unless they come on a forum like this? The world doesn't begin and end with FF so dealers will always get asked for spare parts whatever.
As one of the largest dealer groups in the uk, and in an area which has terrible roads, surely we would get more breakages than perhaps a central london dealer may?

NumanR

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But you still haven't managed to successfuly define your unique perspective..... exactly what is it you think needs to be put into perspective? Frankly I don't give a monkeys if your dealership hasn't had to deal with x or y and as a Stilo owner yourself don't you think it a wee bit odd that Stilo springs shatter for no apparent good reason?

ABZSTILO said:

But you still haven't managed to successfuly define your unique perspective..... exactly what is it you think needs to be put into perspective? Frankly I don't give a monkeys if your dealership hasn't had to deal with x or y and as a Stilo owner yourself don't you think it a wee bit odd that Stilo springs shatter for no apparent good reason?

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:yeahthat:

french bean said:

What's a DET?

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Dealer expert technician.

french bean said:

Where on earth in the UK has worse roads than London?

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Eswick.

Thanks Phil, you were a little more grateful when I advised you of a possible way your springs might get paid for!
Obviously your memory is not as good as it used to be.
ABZ, I dont think that Stilo springs "shatter for no apparent reason", the technical reason for the failures is due to corrosion which has been caused by salt being used on the roads. This attacks any weakness in the springs covering and this causes the failure. This problem has not occured in countries which do not spread salt on the roads during winter. Its also possible that wheel acid cleaner may contribute if it were not washed off properly.
I do not have a "unique" perspective, I just feel that this is being blown out of proportion. I tried to give you examples of the numbers that we are talking about regarding the failure rate. As a dealer I am, I suspect, in a much better position to judge this than a customer, as I have more information available to me. If my opinions are not agreed with, that is understandable, but do not for one minute doubt my technical qualifications to make a statement of a technical matter on a subject regarding a manufacturer I have been working for during the last ten years and also on a product which I actually own.

NumanR said:

Thanks Phil, you were a little more grateful when I advised you of a possible way your springs might get paid for!
Obviously your memory is not as good as it used to be.
ABZ, I dont think that Stilo springs "shatter for no apparent reason", the technical reason for the failures is due to corrosion which has been caused by salt being used on the roads. This attacks any weakness in the springs covering and this causes the failure. This problem has not occured in countries which do not spread salt on the roads during winter. Its also possible that wheel acid cleaner may contribute if it were not washed off properly.
I do not have a "unique" perspective, I just feel that this is being blown out of proportion. I tried to give you examples of the numbers that we are talking about regarding the failure rate. As a dealer I am, I suspect, in a much better position to judge this than a customer, as I have more information available to me. If my opinions are not agreed with, that is understandable, but do not for one minute doubt my technical qualifications to make a statement of a technical matter on a subject regarding a manufacturer I have been working for during the last ten years and also on a product which I actually own.

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No my memory is fine I still have the PM you sent me wasn't it you that said please dont divulge the source of the information and yes I was very grateful its just a pity that fiat didn't carry through what they promised yes I am aggrieved but I am not alone in this situation it not just about me there are many others I'm sure who are well displeased with the professional conduct of Fiat UK in the matter of spring replacement when there is growing evidence of bad design flaws with the spring but all the same thanks for your help I did pass on the info you gave me to others its a shame it didn't happen but we all live and learn dont we and I wont trust fiat again with their hollow promises

I can see this could go on for a bit

NumanR said:

ABZ, I dont think that Stilo springs "shatter for no apparent reason", the technical reason for the failures is due to corrosion which has been caused by salt being used on the roads. This attacks any weakness in the springs covering and this causes the failure. This problem has not occured in countries which do not spread salt on the roads during winter. Its also possible that wheel acid cleaner may contribute if it were not washed off properly..

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Fair play, that's the technical explanation of why it happens but I'd hardly consider it a good reason. I'm saying that it simply should not be happening at all, but I recognise there's no point in shooting the messenger in this instance.

NumanR said:

I do not have a "unique" perspective, I just feel that this is being blown out of proportion. I tried to give you examples of the numbers that we are talking about regarding the failure rate. As a dealer I am, I suspect, in a much better position to judge this than a customer, as I have more information available to me.

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But surely it's clear to you that you do have a unique perspective - as a DET you have all the facts and figures in front of (or available to) you on the numbers of cars the 'problem' is likely to affect; information most others on this forum simply do not have. So your perspective is one of informed awareness wheras others such as I are merely aware - usually by springs shattering in my case From a FIAT DETs perspective I can see that you might consider that this subject is getting blown out of proportion. I'd choose to disagree with that unique perspective as there is the potential for a serious incident to befall a Stilo owner with this weakness in the springs.

NumanR said:

I tried to give you examples of the numbers that we are talking about regarding the failure rate. As a dealer I am, I suspect, in a much better position to judge this than a customer, as I have more information available to me. If my opinions are not agreed with, that is understandable, but do not for one minute doubt my technical qualifications to make a statement of a technical matter on a subject regarding a manufacturer I have been working for during the last ten years and also on a product which I actually own.

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Hmmm - yes, you did try but I must be thick as the point you were endeavouring to make was lost on me - other than you're getting a might tetchy there aren't you NumanR?
Not for one minute have I doubted or queried your technical background.
The way you're approaching what is, for some of us (and potentially all Stilo owners) a very touchy subject I think is a tad (how shall I put it...?) unusual. Handily we have (so far) managed to air our different views on this forum without the need for heavy handed moderation, but don't suggest for one minute that I have queried your background or competency to discuss the subject. Frankly, whilst I respect your opinion, I think your view on this topic sucks.
I can only imagine what you think of me and the others who have contributed to this thread and had the misfortune of a suspension failure or two - perhaps reckless irrational scaremongers (or something like that) which is fine by me - with two broken spring incidents behind me

I think we should agree to disagree on this one

ABZSTILO said:

I'd choose to disagree with that unique perspective as there is the potential for a serious incident to befall a Stilo owner with this weakness in the springs.

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Mondeos suffer spring fracture on all versions mk1 to mk3.All mondeos suffer suspension bush wear...infact I was changing my mondeo front arms yearly at MOT time thats how bad they are,also the mk3 were getting the rear subframe bushes changed at mileages as low as 500miles Why?............salt!! No other mondeos suffered this problem except UK models.
I believe this is the point numanR was trying to put across in reference to corrosion....its ok saying it shouldnt happen but the fact is it does & will carry on happening in this country.As I also work in a garage which buys/sells all makes of cars I can honestly say stilo springs are no more common than other makes,infact we seem to be doing alot of VW springs at the moment.

Reported failures now run at 24% of all members. Considering that 11% of members have upgraded their springs anyway then this figure could be higher still (say 26%)

Based on a total of 15 failures we now have:

Failure by age:
2002 = 73%
2003 = 27%

By model
1.6 = 33%
JTD = 27%
Multiwagon = 7%
Abarth = 33%

Since failures cover two spring type (pretty sure the 1.6 uses different front springs to the Abarth and JTD) and we’re starting to get reports of failure in 2003 then it looks like failure could be due to corrosion just as Fiat claim.

As yet no one has produced an image of the fracture which could prove interesting :chin:

When I found mine broken [near side] and dismantled the strut/spring it appeared that the brake was not new and the spring had previously broken but had stayed located I must have hit a pot hole or bump for the spring to dislocate but still leaving the bottom bit still on the base of the strut the brake was at this angle / and both ends were tarnished but there was no sign of extreme corrosion anywhere so my conclusion is bad design/manufacture etc I have driven so many cars in my many years on the road and this is the first car I'v owned with this problem.

PNL said:

I have driven so many cars in my many years on the road and this is the first car I'v owned with this problem.

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I suspect we've driven a similar number cars between us and I agree even 30 years ago spring failure was almost unheard of (I've never experienced one ever).

But if it really is a design fault then how on earth have they made the same mistake on two types of spring

Argonought said:

As yet no one has produced an image of the fracture which could prove interesting :chin:

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Pants - I thought I had kept the pics on my PC but can't find them I'll keep hunting as I had loads of 'em (for both springs) just in case FIAT were 'difficult'

Argonought said:

I suspect we've driven a similar number cars between us and I agree even 30 years ago spring failure was almost unheard of (I've never experienced one ever).

But if it really is a design fault then how on earth have they made the same mistake on two types of spring

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Possibly they were made at the same manufacturing plant and both used the same inferior grade of steel :chin:

PNL said:

Possibly they were made at the same manufacturing plant and both used the same inferior grade of steel :chin:

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Possibility I guess

Checked my front springs over the weekend and they show absolutely no sign of corrosion and appear to be in perfect condition

Argonought said:

Possibility I guess

Checked my front springs over the weekend and they show absolutely no sign of corrosion and appear to be in perfect condition

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So did mine but that was famous last words :tempt: yours next

Argonought said:

Notes for the broken spring poll​

1. This poll is about broken springs so if yours are still OK (so far) then please ONLY answer one of the two questions at the end.
2. It’s a multiple choice poll so if you’ve had two failures then try to enter the info for both.
3. If your dealer changed both springs for one incident then enter this as a single failure.
4. I’ve never heard of rear spring failure but the option is there just in case

We all know they break so hopefully this might show a trend :idea:

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Just comlpeted your poll: ref my Stilo Multiwaggon. I have had one front spring broken which ripped the tyre to pieces lucky I was only doing 30mph.
I have also recentyly had a rear spring broken on the opposite side which also
shot the wheel bearing.

Bombay said:

I have also recentyly had a rear spring broken on the opposite side which also
shot the wheel bearing.

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I think it's pity you can't be offered some sort of prize for that

I honestly thought no one would ever report rear spring failure.

If there any possibility you kept the broken end of the spring as this adds an intriguing element to this saga. There simply has to be a common denominator for all these failures. Could it really be road salt as Fiat claim?

Just completed your poll: ref my Stilo Multiwaggon. I have had one front spring broken which ripped the tyre to pieces lucky I was only doing 30mph.
I have also recently had a rear spring broken on the opposite side which also
shot the wheel bearing.

So Fiat have Claimed that spring failure is due to Road Salt ???

Why ????

Not much road salt about last few winters have we!!!!! ( Global Warming )

Area Vehicle is used in might help in this survey.

Why don`t Fiat RECALL and fit Springs that will not be Attacked by Road Salt????

Tim T said:

So Fiat have Claimed that spring failure is due to Road Salt ???

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Plenty of threads on this if you want to read them.

Area Vehicle is used in might help in this survey.

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True

Why don`t Fiat RECALL and fit Springs that will not be Attacked by Road Salt????

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Are you being serious - you're lucky to get any springs replaced - read the threads

Argonought said:

I think it's pity you can't be offered some sort of prize for that

I honestly thought no one would ever report rear spring failure.

If there any possibility you kept the broken end of the spring as this adds an intriguing element to this saga. There simply has to be a common denominator for all these failures. Could it really be road salt as Fiat claim?

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No I never kept the broken spring the dealer must have binned it.
The common denominator for all these failures is Fiat.
I have written to Fiat UK about this dangerous safety problem and other failures I have had on rear suspension and massive tyre wear, 5 front sets in 42000 miles. Now the catch which is glued onto the rear window of my Multiwagon has fallen off and I can't lock it shut.
I am seriously considering taking Fiat UK to court.