General Poor performance

NebulaStilo · Oct 11, 2019

Thanks Ralf and Wody.
I'm trying to get hold of someone who has a scanner. I want to invest in one.

I have the MAP sensor. No sensor on pipe Or throttle body. Only idle control sensor on throttle body.

The sensor i cleaned is on the engine side of the body. I tried looking for signs of a loose plug clip laying around that could be the MAF sensor plug but nothing.
I changed to a K&N cone filter that was laying here in my garage. Car sounds better and drives abit better. I took out LAMDA sensor connector and the car slowly dropped RPM like it was going to cut out and then I put it back and slowly came back up to idle.
Removed sensor after cat and no change.
As you see in the video,the car accelerates like that needle done in the video(when it dips in rpm)

Ive noticed when the air is like really chilly outside like at 2am coming from late night shift then the car runs better,if not,I'll say it runs like it use to. But thats only when its really cold

I am 1 of like 3 people in Cape Town with a Stilo. Other 2 has either jtd or 2.4. I'm only guy with 1.6 ?

NebulaStilo · Oct 11, 2019

enlightening:

The car had another no name cone I bought at local parts store. K&N came from partners brothers old induction kit.

NebulaStilo · Oct 15, 2019

Ralf S. said:
I can't find a decent view of the 1.6 intake system.. Even on ePer the MAF and/or MAP seems to be pretty elusive. Ahhhh

There could be just a single sensor but in that case I would expect it to be the MAF. If the plug-in style sensor you cleaned is on the *airbox* side of the throttle body (or in the throttle body assembly) then it's a MAF. If it's on the engine side of the throttle body (or on the inlet manifold itself) then it's a MAP.

It's only really important if you have both and you only cleaned/replaced the MAP.. since the MAF has a bigger effect on how the car runs. If you have just one sensor (the MAF) and that's the one you cleaned then don't worry about if you also have a MAP sensor.

I'm assuming for now that your sensor is the MAF and it's on or next to the TB. You said somewhere that you replaced it, which is good... but lately you said you cleaned it. If the MAF is knackered (and it could be, judging by the lights in your video) then cleaning it isn't going to help.

A MAF gets covered in grime but has a heater to help burn some of it off. If the MAF was just covered in oil and grime then cleaning it would help but if (for example) the heater circuit burns out, like a light bulb.. then polishing the bulb isn't going to make it shine. You would need a new MAF.

If money is tight and MAFs are expensive (don't buy a cheapo MAF.. they usually give strange readings and fix one problem but cause another) then try to track down a second-hand one. It's handy if you know/chat up any other Stilo owners with a 1.6... see if they'll lend you their MAF, just to see if it makes any difference. If another MAF changes nothing, then you know it's not the MAF.

The airbox/cone is not ideal but it wouldn't make the console lights come on or the car run erratically. It would still work out how much air is getting in and meter the fuel to match. It might have the power of a 1.2.. but it would still drive like normal (no hiccups, revs instability etc.)

But.. it's interesting the car "improved" a bit while you tweaked the air intake. That sounds like the cold draught woke up something down by the throttle body.. and the obvious candidate is the MAF.

If money was no object and code readers hadn't been invented yet, I would replace the MAF and the lambda sensor.. particularly if you or someone has used leaded benzina in the car (catalysts and lambda's don't like leaded petrol).

If you can borrow a code-reader or find someone who has one, then it would be worth clearing the codes (you probably have the full set by now) and seeing which ones come back.

Meanwhile check the battery earth and stick an extra earth on it... (the alternator earth sounds like it could be a good place to start with). Earthing wire is not too tricky to get hold of - go to a scrap yard and have an old battery earth strap off any new-ish car that you find there.

I suspect the beast has a couple of different problems (and it may turn out to be an ECU fault) but we can eliminate some of the easy ones first.

Ralf S.

Found someone with stilo 1.6 like mine. Never mind he doesn't have a air filter lol.
That's his pic of air intake. No sign of MAF.

Ralf S. · Oct 16, 2019

It's peculiar there's no MAF... but not impossible I suppose. The 1.6 is quite a simple engine and it could be it only runs a MAP sensor.

Anyroad up.. as above, the likely suspect is either a duff MAF or an errant lambda sensor... or a bit of both.

If you can't find a code-reader then I would try to replace the MAP. I'm not sure if you cleaned it or replaced it.. but if it's not working because it's been damaged/contaminated then being clean doesn't help it much.

If a (good quality brand) MAP is more expensive than the lambda sensor, then the lambda is also one to probably retire. NTK (NGK sister brand) are not too expensive compared to Bosch and work okay. Don't replace yours with one that has no plug, which you have to splice into your old plug wiring... though if you do and it makes things slightly better/worse at least you'll know that the lambda signal is playing some part in your issue.

I didn't know you had a second lambda... (but no MAF...

) but I'd concentrate on the first one, nearest the engine since that'll get more abuse from the exhaust gas so it's just more likely to fail than the other one further back.

Are you sure the throttle position sensor is *perfect*? If the car idles at 850rpm +/- and is relatively stable, then that's a good sign. If it's hunting about a bit *amd* trying to stall (apologies I can't re-watch the video in my current location) then it may be worth another clean.

But code-read is the next cheapest thing to try, if you can do it.

Ralf S.

aschiuta · Oct 16, 2019

There is no MAF sensor on 1.6 petrol engine on Stilo.
Only MAP sensor, it can be removed very easy and cleaned.
Also you can disconnect both lambda sensors and try how the machine works without them.

NebulaStilo · Oct 16, 2019

Thanks all. Will try that.
Next week im taking her to someone to have her codes read. Ive inquired prices for parts in the mean time at Masterparts. One of biggest genuine parts dealer in Cape Town. Well the only guys who seem to stock parts for the Stilo.
At least when the codes come up,I'll know what the knock to my wallet will be.
In a sound engineer so its a busy season this time of year hence she will be fixed before end of year.
Will keep posted as to codes and her progress

Thanks

Abarth L · Oct 17, 2019

Hi NebulaStilo
Just saw your post.
I am currently in Cape Town.
Will be glad to assist in fault finding.
I have a code reader, Fluke multimeter, some experience ?
Send me a private message with your contact details then we can arrange to meet.

NebulaStilo · Oct 22, 2019

NebulaStilo said:
Thanks all. Will try that.
Next week im taking her to someone to have her codes read. Ive inquired prices for parts in the mean time at Masterparts. One of biggest genuine parts dealer in Cape Town. Well the only guys who seem to stock parts for the Stilo.
At least when the codes come up,I'll know what the knock to my wallet will be.
In a sound engineer so its a busy season this time of year hence she will be fixed before end of year.
Will keep posted as to codes and her progress

Thanks

Hi Ralf.
I changed crank sensor just as another idea.
Going to get diagnostics but just wondering,
My stilo won't rev passed 6000. Is that normal. I was idling and revved the car till red but when it reached 6000 it made like a Honda vtec sound and stucked at 6k

NebulaStilo · Nov 19, 2019

Ralf S. said:
It's peculiar there's no MAF... but not impossible I suppose. The 1.6 is quite a simple engine and it could be it only runs a MAP sensor.

Anyroad up.. as above, the likely suspect is either a duff MAF or an errant lambda sensor... or a bit of both.

If you can't find a code-reader then I would try to replace the MAP. I'm not sure if you cleaned it or replaced it.. but if it's not working because it's been damaged/contaminated then being clean doesn't help it much.

If a (good quality brand) MAP is more expensive than the lambda sensor, then the lambda is also one to probably retire. NTK (NGK sister brand) are not too expensive compared to Bosch and work okay. Don't replace yours with one that has no plug, which you have to splice into your old plug wiring... though if you do and it makes things slightly better/worse at least you'll know that the lambda signal is playing some part in your issue.

I didn't know you had a second lambda... (but no MAF... ) but I'd concentrate on the first one, nearest the engine since that'll get more abuse from the exhaust gas so it's just more likely to fail than the other one further back.

Are you sure the throttle position sensor is *perfect*? If the car idles at 850rpm +/- and is relatively stable, then that's a good sign. If it's hunting about a bit *amd* trying to stall (apologies I can't re-watch the video in my current location) then it may be worth another clean.

But code-read is the next cheapest thing to try, if you can do it.

Ralf S.

Hi Ralf
I bought a elm327 diagnostic scan tool.
These were the codes i got. I checked them up. Did you maybe get any of these just to get advice from someone with more experience

NebulaStilo · Nov 19, 2019

Codes

Hi everyone. (Posting again,don't know if other one went through )

So i bought me a elm327 diagnostic tool for my 2006 fiat stilo 1.6 16v.

These are the codes I got BEFORE clearing faults,
then the codes I got AFTER clearing faults. I got less codes after I cleared faults. Car drove bit better after clearing faults. Even when engine light came back on.

(Less codes is the one after clearing faults )

Does anyone have experience with these codes. I did look them up,just wondering what you guys experience with these codes are/were.

Its got to do with 02 sensors.
Before clearing I had fault with MAP sensor but after clearing it went away even when engine light came back on.

Thanks alot.

Ralf S. · Nov 20, 2019

Good that you cleared down the old codes. They could be issues caused by transient issues that are no longer happening or relevant.

The codes you have mean;

P0141 - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0571 - Cruise Control/Brake Switch A Circuit Malfunction
U1600 - Fiat specific (igniton key recognition problems)

Of these, I'd say the one to worry about is the P0141. It looks like a duff lambda sensor (or an issue in its heater circuit). Check the relay to make sure it's getting power... otherwise a new lambda might be needed.

The Cruise Control/Brake switch malfunction ... check the brake lights circuit and the switch down by the pedal. I presume you don't have C/C.. so this one might go away of you find/sort out a brake circuit electrical problem.

U1600 is what the car does when you use an unknown key. If your key is on a key ring with a dozen other car keys, it might be picking up a random signal. Isolate the ignition key (remove it from that keyring) and put it in the ignition with no other keys anywhere near it. That should resolve this code (although you'll need to clear the code to see).

Ralf S.

NebulaStilo · Nov 21, 2019

Ralf S. said:
Good that you cleared down the old codes. They could be issues caused by transient issues that are no longer happening or relevant.

The codes you have mean;

P0141 - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0571 - Cruise Control/Brake Switch A Circuit Malfunction
U1600 - Fiat specific (igniton key recognition problems)

Of these, I'd say the one to worry about is the P0141. It looks like a duff lambda sensor (or an issue in its heater circuit). Check the relay to make sure it's getting power... otherwise a new lambda might be needed.

The Cruise Control/Brake switch malfunction ... check the brake lights circuit and the switch down by the pedal. I presume you don't have C/C.. so this one might go away of you find/sort out a brake circuit electrical problem.

U1600 is what the car does when you use an unknown key. If your key is on a key ring with a dozen other car keys, it might be picking up a random signal. Isolate the ignition key (remove it from that keyring) and put it in the ignition with no other keys anywhere near it. That should resolve this code (although you'll need to clear the code to see).

Ralf S.

Thanks ralf for your reply

Getting somewhere lol.

Yes my brake lights don't work.
I drive with my parks on so I'm not pulled over unnecessarily by cops?

Any way, where is the relay located?Will check that out because I am killing myself looking for either lambda sensor(pre and post cat)
No parts store has it here. I want to change both just to have peace of mind.

Car is moving better and speedometer not jumping like I said before.
Still has that uneven acceleration slightly so now diagnostics helped me nail it down to O2.

Seems Like I would need to import a sensor from EBay.

In terms of key,its only the car key and a key ring. The car is locked and unlocked with the key itself and Fob doesn't work. Although battery changed and small light goes on when you press a button on the fob. It was standing awhile by delear before I bought the car.

Again thank you for the awesome help.

Getting somewhere.

NebulaStilo · Nov 21, 2019

Ralf S. said:
Good that you cleared down the old codes. They could be issues caused by transient issues that are no longer happening or relevant.

The codes you have mean;

P0141 - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0571 - Cruise Control/Brake Switch A Circuit Malfunction
U1600 - Fiat specific (igniton key recognition problems)

Of these, I'd say the one to worry about is the P0141. It looks like a duff lambda sensor (or an issue in its heater circuit). Check the relay to make sure it's getting power... otherwise a new lambda might be needed.

The Cruise Control/Brake switch malfunction ... check the brake lights circuit and the switch down by the pedal. I presume you don't have C/C.. so this one might go away of you find/sort out a brake circuit electrical problem.

U1600 is what the car does when you use an unknown key. If your key is on a key ring with a dozen other car keys, it might be picking up a random signal. Isolate the ignition key (remove it from that keyring) and put it in the ignition with no other keys anywhere near it. That should resolve this code (although you'll need to clear the code to see).

Ralf S.

I removed the sensors once to clean them and the one sensor(furthest to tail pipe)was completely black and covered in carbon.
The other was still looking okay

Ralf S. · Nov 22, 2019

NebulaStilo said:
Yes my brake lights don't work.
I drive with my parks on so I'm not pulled over unnecessarily by cops?

The P0571 error could be spot-on correct and it's the brake light switch.

This is on the top of the brake pedal and usually looks like a simple plunger switch. When you press the brake pedal it moves the plunger (in or out) and that completes the brake lights circuit.

Take it off and see whether you can make a circuit by connecting the two electrical leads together (stick a bulb across them and see if it lights up with the ignition on). If it does, then it's the switch that's knackered.

Ralf S.

Ralf S. · Nov 22, 2019

NebulaStilo said:
Any way, where is the relay located?Will check that out because I am killing myself looking for either lambda sensor(pre and post cat)

There are relays on the fuse boards under the dashboard and also on top of the battery. The lambda relay is most likely one of those red ones on top of the battery but I have no idea which one it is (no Manual with me).

If you don't know which is which, take a photo of the fuse board then remove the relays, one by one or a few at a time. Be careful not to pull the caps off, if they're tight. Lever the relays up with a small screwdriver rather than trying to pull them.

Clean up the connector blades with some emery paper and use a small wire brush or paper-clip etc. to scrape any gunge out of the female connector that is in the fuse board.

Then replace the relays in a like for like position. When they're out you'll be able to see that there's about 2 or 3 different types. Replace each relay in a different location (but obviously one that uses the same type of relay) so that any issue with the relay itself will show up as a fault on some more "visible" item, like all of a sudden if your horn no longer works.

If shuffling the relays about doesn't cause a new problem to appear somewhere else (but your lambda heater starts working/the error clears and doesn't come back) then the relays are okay. Relays don't usually fail compared to the connections get corroded, so just cleaning them will help.

If the relays doesn't solve the problem it could be just a regular old lambda failure. They do pack up occasionally. The first one is more likely to be the problem since it works harder and gets hotter gas on it.. (and teh error message hints that it's the No.1 which has the fault).

But you can clear the error, swap the sensors round (if they're the same size) and see if the error comes back or moves to be No.2... in which case you'll know it's this sensor that's the problem.

Ralf S.

Ralf S. · Nov 22, 2019

NebulaStilo said:
In terms of key,its only the car key and a key ring. The car is locked and unlocked with the key itself and Fob doesn't work. Although battery changed and small light goes on when you press a button on the fob. It was standing awhile by delear before I bought the car.
Getting somewhere.

The U1600 problem is most likely something in the c/locking circuit then.

There are c/locking relays on the Body Control Module under the dashboard (behind the fuesbox) so it could be an issue in there or with the (PCB) circuits.

If the car starts and works okay apart from this error, it's probably not the biggest problem right now, unless someone has a BCM wiring diagram and can tell you which pins to test. I don't have access to some of the more detailed official Fiat diagnostics stuff, I'm afraid.

Ralf S.

NebulaStilo · Nov 26, 2019

Ralf S. said:
The U1600 problem is most likely something in the c/locking circuit then.

There are c/locking relays on the Body Control Module under the dashboard (behind the fuesbox) so it could be an issue in there or with the (PCB) circuits.

If the car starts and works okay apart from this error, it's probably not the biggest problem right now, unless someone has a BCM wiring diagram and can tell you which pins to test. I don't have access to some of the more detailed official Fiat diagnostics stuff, I'm afraid.

Ralf S.

Hi

I'll try that relay testing you said. I'll also try swop the sensors around. They look different from each other.

The car starts perfect and has no problem locking with key. But doesnt lock with buttons.

Sometimes it doesn't lock on its own when driving. (Its suppose to lock when going over 20kmh ) sometimes it doesn't lock. But when leaving the car say at a mall then i can lock her with the key.

osamfirescu · Jan 2, 2020

NebulaStilo said:
Hi Ralf.
I changed crank sensor just as another idea.
Going to get diagnostics but just wondering,
My stilo won't rev passed 6000. Is that normal. I was idling and revved the car till red but when it reached 6000 it made like a Honda vtec sound and stucked at 6k

HI guys, did you manage to find the problem? I have the same simtoms, not reving past 6000, poor performance overall, and the same metalic sound Nebula had in his video. No engine errors whatsoever. I changed the plugs, battery, waterpump, belts... Still the same

Thanks everyone for the support!!

Moreno83 · Jan 10, 2020

Clean the carterventilation or check/replace the airfilter.

osamfirescu · Jan 13, 2020

Moreno83 said:
Clean the carterventilation or check/replace the airfilter.

Carterventilation? can you give me more details please?

Thanks for the reply

BR,
Ovi

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