General Abarth with performance issues..Can't figure it out.

[RobertV1991]

Hi all!,

I'm the proud owner of a Stilo Abarth 2.4 since january this year. After some other issues with the Selespeed and other services doen, I'm having performance problems. The car feels sluggish, struggling to pick up power. Can't really describe it properly. But when a Vw Polo 1.2ish or so can outrun you, you know something is wrong haha.

I already posted this issue on a Stilo Forum in the Netherlands, but nobody seems to know what it could be. So I found your forum in the hopes maybe you guys know the answer to this nightmare.

What I already did.. Changed spark plugs (twice), Air filter, cleaned throttle body, Cleaned Maf, Checked & cleaned most of the connectors..

I also have MultiECUscan wich occasionally throws up a fault. Recently it was the pre-cat Lambda. Changed it, and now the same error came up again. Erased it and it didn't came back tillen now.

And then there's another thing. When I stop (like a junction) the cars revs drop to 0 and stuggles to keep itself going. Then it quickly recovers to 500Rpm and eventually to 700/800ish. But not all the time! This car is really a mystery to me.

If you know something what could be the problem. Please help haha.

Thanks!

Robert

 

[kokkolin]

Hi all!,

I'm the proud owner of a Stilo Abarth 2.4 since january this year. After some other issues with the Selespeed and other services doen, I'm having performance problems. The car feels sluggish, struggling to pick up power. Can't really describe it properly. But when a Vw Polo 1.2ish or so can outrun you, you know something is wrong haha.

I already posted this issue on a Stilo Forum in the Netherlands, but nobody seems to know what it could be. So I found your forum in the hopes maybe you guys know the answer to this nightmare.

What I already did.. Changed spark plugs (twice), Air filter, cleaned throttle body, Cleaned Maf, Checked & cleaned most of the connectors..

I also have MultiECUscan wich occasionally throws up a fault. Recently it was the pre-cat Lambda. Changed it, and now the same error came up again. Erased it and it didn't came back tillen now.

And then there's another thing. When I stop (like a junction) the cars revs drop to 0 and stuggles to keep itself going. Then it quickly recovers to 500Rpm and eventually to 700/800ish. But not all the time! This car is really a mystery to me.

If you know something what could be the problem. Please help haha.

Thanks!

Robert

sounds like a timing problem, did you changed the timing belt?

 

[RobertV1991]

Hi Kokkolin,

It was recently changed by a Italian car specialist. But the lack of performance was already there before it was changed. It's strange that it changes slightly. Sometimes some power, other times really bad.

 

[Ralf S.]

If the car is rolling along at a normal revs and you put your foot down enough to give it a shove (not necessarily all the way to the floor) does it respond immediately, or is it lethargic? If you accelerate slowly slowly... is it smoother?

If it runs okay when "slowly slowly" but doesn't want to know if you boot it, then it may be that your fuel pump is not delivering enough gas, or the regulator may be weak. Check the fuel pressure at the fuel rail to see what that says, then work backwards from there.

Weak delivery might be the fuel pump. They can have a rubber fuel line that carries the fuel to the top of the pump, rather than a metal pipe... and the rubber can perish and split... so your pump is lifting the gas up this tube but if the tube is leaking, a lot of the fuel just leaves through the split in the pipe rather than reaching the fuel lines.

You can replace the tube but it has to be a special "in-tank" capable rubber(?) pipe. A normal rubber pipe (i.e. even a normal rubber fuel injection pipe) won't work.. since the rubber will rot from whichever side is not protected against petrol. It has to be an "in tank" capable pipe.... which I guess is not actually rubber.

Anyhow... check fuel. If fuel is good then it has to be sparks.


Ralf S.

 

[RobertV1991]

If the car is rolling along at a normal revs and you put your foot down enough to give it a shove (not necessarily all the way to the floor) does it respond immediately, or is it lethargic? If you accelerate slowly slowly... is it smoother?

If it runs okay when "slowly slowly" but doesn't want to know if you boot it, then it may be that your fuel pump is not delivering enough gas, or the regulator may be weak. Check the fuel pressure at the fuel rail to see what that says, then work backwards from there.

Weak delivery might be the fuel pump. They can have a rubber fuel line that carries the fuel to the top of the pump, rather than a metal pipe... and the rubber can perish and split... so your pump is lifting the gas up this tube but if the tube is leaking, a lot of the fuel just leaves through the split in the pipe rather than reaching the fuel lines.

You can replace the tube but it has to be a special "in-tank" capable rubber(?) pipe. A normal rubber pipe (i.e. even a normal rubber fuel injection pipe) won't work.. since the rubber will rot from whichever side is not protected against petrol. It has to be an "in tank" capable pipe.... which I guess is not actually rubber.

Anyhow... check fuel. If fuel is good then it has to be sparks.


Ralf S.

Hi Ralf,

Thanks for the input The reaction time of the car is good. If I floor it at mid revs, it will accelerate gradually, but it takes too long! The Rpm are consistent with speed so the clutch is not slipping.

As for the Fuelpressure. To check it I need to use the adapter on the right side of the rails (when you're in front of the car)? And do I need some special tools for that? Maybe I will take it to a specialist to check that for me.

I also noticed my exhaust tip is blackened. I know a little blackening is normal, but I've never seen it this much.

Sorry for my English by the way, It's a bit rusty haha.

Thanks!

 

[llamallama]

Possibly check the air intake,
Like the manifold, airbox filter, double check the MAF sensor also

 

[llamallama]

Also the throttle body

 

[mdrazic]

Hi

I am Marin from Croatia. I have near the same problem. My Abarth have 158.000km. Previous owner put inside 5w-40 oil but I changed to selenia racing 10w-60 because it consumes 1L/1000km od oil. I live in warm part of country so original spec oil is good. My exaust pipe very soon become dark. With new oil consuption is lower. Unstable iddle is stil present. It drops to 500 rpm and return to 700-800. I cleaned intake and maf sensor but only kangarooing is much lower. When I drive it than everything if fine, eco test is superb, trottle response is relative good but I have constant feeling when I push it harder than "someone outside" push my car backwards. 170hp on 1300kg must be better than this. I have spare engine with gearbox and if something goes wrong I have backup.

 

[RobertV1991]

Possibly check the air intake,
Like the manifold, airbox filter, double check the MAF sensor also

Checked al that, changed filter recently and everything is triple checked. Too bad the System is not throwing up fault codes, at least then I know what to look for..

 

[RobertV1991]

Also the throttle body

Cleaned it twice, parameters on MES are correct to my knowledge.. Maybe the Cat?

 

[RobertV1991]

Hi

I am Marin from Croatia. I have near the same problem. My Abarth have 158.000km. Previous owner put inside 5w-40 oil but I changed to selenia racing 10w-60 because it consumes 1L/1000km od oil. I live in warm part of country so original spec oil is good. My exaust pipe very soon become dark. With new oil consuption is lower. Unstable iddle is stil present. It drops to 500 rpm and return to 700-800. I cleaned intake and maf sensor but only kangarooing is much lower. When I drive it than everything if fine, eco test is superb, trottle response is relative good but I have constant feeling when I push it harder than "someone outside" push my car backwards. 170hp on 1300kg must be better than this. I have spare engine with gearbox and if something goes wrong I have backup.

Same here mdrazic! I hope we can figure this out! Today I called some local garages if they can perform an emmision test. Hopefully something comes up

 

[astacheva]

I had a similar problem and it turned out to be clogged injectors. Some shop can clean then with some ultrasonic equipment and then messure the amount of fuel the spray per minute and that way asure its working properly again.

 

[Ralf S.]

A lot of soot in the exhaust could be the injectors, which is also related to "fuelling problem" (my first thought).

If your fuel rail pressure is good (you need to have the correct measuring equipment and know how to use it, so I would give this quite simple job to a garage to do) then have a look at the injectors. There are places that can do ultrasonic cleaning.. they'll tell you the "before" and "after" readings... and if the injector is worn out, they can tell you that too (and may be able to rebuild them).

What kind of mpg does the beast do, compared to what Fiat says? You should get fairly close to the Fiat consumption figures.

Meanwhile.. you can try an injector cleaning product in your fuel tank... Cheapest one to find is kerosene/paraffin ... but if you can get your hands on Propanol, acetone and toluene grab those too. Make yourself some injector cleaner using the kerosene (60%), Propanol (20%) and acetone/toluene (10% each). You need about a litre of it.

If you only have kerosene, use 100% kerosene. If you have kerosene but only 1 or 2 of the others but not all of them, use kerosene instead of the missing one(s).

Stick 300ml of your home-made cleaner into a full tank of petrol and just drive the car normally. The cleaner may or may not be able to dissolve any blockages but you have every solvent known to man that won't wreck the engine in there, so it's worth a try.


Ralf S.

 

[RobertV1991]

I had a similar problem and it turned out to be clogged injectors. Some shop can clean then with some ultrasonic equipment and then messure the amount of fuel the spray per minute and that way asure its working properly again.

Yes I've thought about that too. I used some injector cleaners (Wynns) multiple times but no difference. But still, maybe it's not strong enough to clean them 100%. The car is going to a diagnostic center the 15th of july. Maybe they can sort it out.

 

[RobertV1991]

A lot of soot in the exhaust could be the injectors, which is also related to "fuelling problem" (my first thought).

If your fuel rail pressure is good (you need to have the correct measuring equipment and know how to use it, so I would give this quite simple job to a garage to do) then have a look at the injectors. There are places that can do ultrasonic cleaning.. they'll tell you the "before" and "after" readings... and if the injector is worn out, they can tell you that too (and may be able to rebuild them).

What kind of mpg does the beast do, compared to what Fiat says? You should get fairly close to the Fiat consumption figures.

Meanwhile.. you can try an injector cleaning product in your fuel tank... Cheapest one to find is kerosene/paraffin ... but if you can get your hands on Propanol, acetone and toluene grab those too. Make yourself some injector cleaner using the kerosene (60%), Propanol (20%) and acetone/toluene (10% each). You need about a litre of it.

If you only have kerosene, use 100% kerosene. If you have kerosene but only 1 or 2 of the others but not all of them, use kerosene instead of the missing one(s).

Stick 300ml of your home-made cleaner into a full tank of petrol and just drive the car normally. The cleaner may or may not be able to dissolve any blockages but you have every solvent known to man that won't wreck the engine in there, so it's worth a try.


Ralf S.

I'll try to make that recipe soon, but not having the proper equipment I can't check the rest. I'm taking the Abarth to a car diagnose center the 15th of july. They are experts in wel.. Diagnoses haha. Maybe they can track down the issues. Will let you know soon!

 

[Abarth L]

Sounds like a air leak on the exhaust manifold.
Either on the head or 5 in 1 gasket creating havoc on Lamda readings for ecu calc.
Can also be your cam sensor.
Check if your timing belt Tensioner are still on the correct mark.

 

[RobertV1991]

Hi guys,

So the car went to the diagnosticscenter.. Turns out (apart from my ussual problem) the intake manifold has a leak somewhere, they couldn't tell me exactly where the leak is unfortunatly.. Also they immediately started throwing prices of a new manifold! Wayy to expensive for me haha. It should be fixable right? Now I would like to take the intake off the car, the only problem I have is how to release the pressure from the injectorrails. I know there is a fitting for a special tools... Is it possible to do this? Or do you need special equipment?

Cheers

Robert

 

[Ralf S.]

The pressure in the fuel rail should disappear once the car has stopped for a while. The only times I've dismantled it, just normal petrol leakage came out.

Don't disconnect the rail with a hot engine though, in case the 2.4 does something unusual.. Ahhhh

 

[RobertV1991]

The pressure in the fuel rail should disappear once the car has stopped for a while. The only times I've dismantled it, just normal petrol leakage came out.

Don't disconnect the rail with a hot engine though, in case the 2.4 does something unusual.. Ahhhh

Hi Ralf,

Aha that is great news! Thanks for replying Do I need to take off the fuelsystem pressure or...? I really am in the dark here, It's so crowded in there hahaha. Last week my coolantreservoir bursted -,-. Replaced that one now. Now I need to figure out how to get the coolantsystem air free. Just in case I ordered new coils, all five of them. Just feels good replacing them.

Cheers all!

Robert

 

[Ralf S.]

I'm not familiar with the 5-cylinder but usually a fuel rail has some "legs" that bolt to the cylinder head.

The injectors are pressed between the injector rail and the inlet manifold.. they're only held in place by an O-ring at each end.. but because they're longer than the gap between the head and the injector rail, they can't fall out.

To remove the injectors, you just unbolt the fuel rail "legs" and then lift the rail off. Some of the injectors may come out with the rail and some might stay in the inlelet manifold.. but they just pull out of each socket, regardless. Just make sure that when you remove the injectors (or they fall out) that you catch any seals, gaskets or o-rings... but usually the O-rings stay on the injectors (one at each end).

Bleeding the cooling system is quite simple. You probably only have a bleed screw on the back of the radiatore. It will be on one side or the other, at the top but on the back of the radiator (inside the engine compartment, facing the engine).

With a cold engine, just unscrew the bleed screw slowly until it starts to wobble and either gas or coolant comes out. *Don't be in a rush..* If you unscrew the bleed screw too far it will fall out, followed by coolant pissing all over the place. You won't be able to get the screw back in while coolant is splashing about. It's funny if you're watching your mate trying to do it.. but very messy (antifreeze is sticky) and expensive.

Once coolant comes out, the radiator is bled. Just tighten up the screw, dry everything and then top up the reservoir. That's it.

Usually I drive around a bit to warm the car up and make sure all the gas is out. Turn the heater to MAX to help the pump push air out of the heater matrix. Otherwise the system is self-purging... all the gas ends up in the header tank without you needing to do anything.

When it's cooled down again, bleed the radiator one more time (should be no air.. but best to check it) and then top up the reservoir again.


Ralf S.