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Old 17-02-2018   #16
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Re: No firing on no. 1 cylinder (cambelt end?)

update:

leakdown test was good on cylinders 2,3,4 (slight expected pressure through dipstick, past cylinder rings)

no. 1 cylinder was giving me air through cylinder 2 spark plug hole....so I immediately thought head gasket, followed by NOT head gasket as I'd have seen same from cylinder 2.

Put spark plugs back in 2,3,4 and air coming out of exhaust. Some though dipstick but I couldn't say if it was less, equal or more than with the other 3 cylinders.

So, I'm thinking broken exhaust valve, or valve spring, or something like that. I doubt that cam lobe would wear but it's possible.

With broken #1 exhaust valve, and #1 at TDC would you expect #2 exhaust valve to be open? I think #2 would be about to start exhaust stroke but not sure when the valve would start to open?

So next job is get the cam covers off.

Any advice on this? Only done the Seicento previously. I'm expecting it to be easy but not sure if any obvious pitfalls...
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Last edited by Mytheroo; 17-02-2018 at 19:13.
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Old 19-02-2018   #17
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Re: No firing on no. 1 cylinder (cambelt end?)

well, "cam cover off" was a bit of a mistake, I kinda wasn't expecting the cams to be attached to the cover. The ECU end popped up a bit, but I got it all rebolted down and no harm done I think.

I also endoscoped the cylinder, and none of the valves looked broken or not closing. I think I'll have to try the leakdown test again (which told me an exhaust valve was not properly sealing). Something not adding up.
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Old 19-02-2018   #18
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Re: No firing on no. 1 cylinder (cambelt end?)

Quote Originally Posted by Mytheroo View Post
update:

no. 1 cylinder was giving me air through cylinder 2 spark plug hole....so I immediately thought head gasket, followed by NOT head gasket as I'd have seen same from cylinder 2.
If pressurizing no.1 cylinder is causing gas to come out of no.2 then I'd say there is a head gasket fault, although I dunno how cylinder 2 manages to keep such a high compression ratio, if there is a knackered gasket between it and no.1. You'd assume the gas would equally escape from no.2 into no. 1... but only no.1 gives a low compression reading.

But... the most likely thing to go wrong is the most likely thing to go wrong .. so I'd rule out valve damage or anything requiring too many variables/planets to line up in the solar system. It'll be either a head gasket or a rings problem.

The only thing that is 100% for sure, is that you won't fix this without taking the head off. The cam cover should just lift off. I never heard of a motor where the cams are inside the cam cover.. (which engine do you have?).

Price up a new head gasket, cam-belt and tensioner kit (and a new water pump while you're at it) and then lift the head off. If you can't immediately see a knackered head gasket, I'll be very surprised. If on the other hand it looks fine, then at least you'll be able to examine the head, pistons and valves individually and "up close".


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Old 24-02-2018   #19
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Re: No firing on no. 1 cylinder (cambelt end?)

yeah the cams are in housings, and come off with the housing bolts. You can't look at the cam without removing them, and then only from the bottom after removing the hydraulic lifters from the housing.

Before this I took off the exhaust manifold and ran the leakdown test again. Got some leakage from 2 and 4, as well as massive leakage from 1, so have decided to have the head professionally renovated. Not sure the damage yet but the head guy said he could see valve burn on #1 exhaust. Head gasket looked ok, was a kind of 2 layer steel one. I thought after-market MLS but the new one in the gasket kit looks like it's the same.

Now I just have to learn about proper timing (I have cam locks but i'm not totally sure how the belt adjuster tool works, and the crank locking tool is also a bit weird. Just another learning exercise I guess.
I also want to check the hydraulic lifters as I was getting a small tick before the valve went doo-lally. Anyone know if they should be springy and compress? I have a new one but it doesn't seem to compress (maybe I'm not pressing hard enough though)
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Old 02-03-2018   #20
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Re: No firing on no. 1 cylinder (cambelt end?)

small update:

Head is back from repairers. Only the one valve needed replacing.

The hydraulic lifters centre nubbins of the ones in the cam housings all lift if persuaded, and drop back down, making oil come out of the little hole. So I guess these are just pressured out with the oil pressure rather than also having a spring internally pushing them out. I couldn't get the new one to do this though, and its also slightly a different size (height of outer, plus width of nubbin) so I'm probably not going to use it. I'll just check the hole of each of the current ones.
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Old 02-04-2018   #21
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Re: No firing on no. 1 cylinder (cambelt end?)

I need to "fake news" myself about the hydraulic tappets. I think they were all shut (drained down?) and I would have needed to whack them down onto a bit of wood to get the piston bit out, clean and test it.
You want them drained-down before fitting the camshaft housings anyway, and they'll pump up as the engine starts.

So, refitted everything and started the engine.....had a horrible metallic noise like maybe another valve hitting something, or maybe a loose screw/bolt/nut having a wild time inside a cam housing!!

Eventually figured out that the dipstick tube had re-assembled at a slightly different angle, and the bottom of the dip stick was being hit by the crank or something in the sump! Panic over.

Engine runs well, headlamp aim motors replaced, just trying to figure out how to replace all the rivnut things the bumper used to attach to .... :-)
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