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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #31
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

Thanks again Davren. Apols about the severely non tech language, bloody amateurs......🙃
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #32
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

Don't forget to clean oil off the flywheel and clutch pressure plate face before fitting new fiction disc. Clearly that's after curing source of the oil leak.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #33
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

Hi guys
Stoopid questions 2 and 3. Q2 - is this what i should have when the driveshaft is pulled away (pics 1 and 2)? Q3 - any tips on best (easiest?) way to remove this bolt which seems to be stuck in the metal sleeve pic 3 (rubber already trashed loosening nut/bolt off)?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #34
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.....and the pics......
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Old 1 Week Ago   #35
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

Stoopid question number 4 - can i reuse the two heavy bolts when fitting a new wishbone (but need to use a new stretch bolt for the balljoint)?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #36
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

Quote Originally Posted by tessiedog View Post
Stoopid questions 2 and 3. Q2 - is this what i should have when the driveshaft is pulled away (pics 1 and 2)?
What happened to "lever between the gearbox and the 'cup like thing"

Quote Originally Posted by tessiedog View Post
Q3 - any tips on best (easiest?) way to remove this bolt which seems to be stuck in the metal sleeve pic 3 (rubber already trashed loosening nut/bolt off)?
Can you lever the bolt out from below?
.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #37
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

"lever between the gearbox and the cup like thing". Ah, well, you see, i removed the strut first and disconnected the ball joint at which point the clip retaining the rubber boot on the side nearest the box popped and the thing literally fell out. Am hoping though that i will be able to lever out the cup thingy, fill the boot up with grease again and refit the clip ready to go back in?

Re the bolt, no hadn't thought of that, but did try to lever it down from the top, alas to no avail. Will give it all another go and try the bottom levering approach as well...... ok to use these bolts again when reassembling?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #38
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

If there's sufficient space to remove the gearbox, then you could probably leave the cup where it is. Cover it, and the spider joint to prevent dirt ingress though.

If the threads are OK, then yes, you can reuse the same wishbone bolts.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #39
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

You can remove the gearbox with the cups in place.. so you don't *have* to remove them. I used some plastic kitchen film over the end of the cup, held on with an elastic band so that dirt didn't get in. I put a carrier bag over the driveshaft spider and tied a knot on it to keep that clean.

Easiest way to drop the 'box (in the absence of a proper gearbox stand) is to use a trolley jack to support the weight while you remove the last couple of bolts.. then use the jack wheels to pull the 'box away from the engine and then lower it. You need three hands to hold the 'box and manipulate it and pull the jack... but it can be done.

I also placed a folded up cardboard box on the floor under the gearbox, since when it's clear of the engine it will drop off the jack and 32kg you have no chance to completely hold it, although sticking your leg under it (fixed later for free on the NHS) prevents damage to the bell-housing...

The bolt... Get an old tyre lever or flat piece of metal and lay one end on the bolt and the other end on your spare wheel tyre, which you'll have to stuff into the arch. Then belt the tyre lever as close as possible to the bolt, with a hammer. Don't try this if you have expensive alloys. It always ends badly.

I'm not a fan of re-using any bolt that has been any way tricky to remove. They're like man-eating tigers that get the taste for human flesh.. You have to shoot them or they'll do it again... Your bolt will be more rusty and more mangled next time you want to remove it.. i.e. today it's as easy to remove as it will ever be.

Measure it.. it's something like M10 x 50 (N.B it might be "fine" thread) and buy a new one for £1 off eBay. It'll arrive before you manage to get the gearbox re-fitted for sure.


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Old 5 Days Ago   #40
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

Hi folks

*

First off, thanks very much to everybody that’s been responding to this (extended) thread – as I’ve said, I’m pretty much a mechanical novice so comfortable enough with the routine servicing type stuff and simpler repairs, but changing a gearbox is something else altogether and the comments and advice that come back on the forum really are a big help. Getting advice on the subtleties and nuances of how things work (and come apart!) is like gold.* For me, it’s a big job and it’ll take me weeks to get through it all, what with having two or three hours at it when I can find the time (and when it’s not raining or cold or both – it is the West of Scotland and it is only May………), and I do get stuck sometimes with stuff, some of which I can work out eventually and some of which I need to walk away and leave and I will come back on here for advice or will trawl the web. Of course, when things are explained to you and you understand how things work, the answer seems obvious (hence the Stoopid Question series…….)* But, actually, must admit that I’m quite enjoying it all, and I’ve been learning a lot about the car as I’ve gone along, which is good for future reference. If I can get her back on the road and running fine, there’s also the feel good factor of saving money and knowing that this wee car (which is actually a nice runner, apart form the transmission issues) would be in the scrapper otherwise.

*

Ralf S – thanks for the “how to do” on pulling the gearbox out, its bits of information like this that I find invaluable – 32kg = 70lbs = 5 stone = heavy! Think I’ll enlist an extra pair of hands to help (so that would give me 4 hands…..) – my fitness fanatic son is a likely candidate (although he doesn’t know it yet……..). Having said that, I’m not that bothered if the bellhousing gets damaged since the gearbox is being replaced anyway…………….? Think also that I will leave the “cups” attached to the gearbox (seem to come away easy enough) and for the driver’s side would be one less thing to co-ordinate when pulling the box out, and then remove them when I have the box on the ground – does that sound a feasible plan? When it comes to refitting later on, any advice/tips on refilling the boots with grease – I’ve got a tub of graphite? grease in the garage which says it’s suitable for CV joints, but looks kind of black/grey in colour while what’s already in looks more yellowy/brownie coloured?

*

On the “bolt” issue, I take the point about re-using difficult nuts and bolts, and tbh I did think about just cutting it off with a grinder, and getting a new one and as you say they are probably cheap enough off ebay. Problem is that I’m a bit paranoid about what strength the bolt needs to be and not sure how I would know that what I am buying is the right thing, (unless of course it says in the item listing something like “bolt for wishbone to subframe”……). Alternatively, I could go to Fiat parts counter and get the right thing there, but have a notion that it might be an arm and a leg. So on balance my thinking was that if I can get the bolt out intact, just to reuse it (altho not sure if that will be possible given that it seems to be seized in the metal sleeve?, but will try the techniques mentioned by yourself and Davren and in the meantime maybe the PlusGas will have worked some magic……).

*

Anyways, thanks again for all the assistance, and hopefully you guys will be willing to respond to my further cries for help (which there will surely be!) as things progress.

*

Cheers

*
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Old 5 Days Ago   #41
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

Quote Originally Posted by tessiedog View Post
When it comes to refitting later on, any advice/tips on refilling the boots with grease – I’ve got a tub of graphite? grease in the garage which says it’s suitable for CV joints, but looks kind of black/grey in colour while what’s already in looks more yellowy/brownie coloured?
The black graphite grease you have is probably Molybdenum Disulphide grease, which is suitable for most CV joints at the hub end of the driveshaft. For the star joint in you pictures (located at the gearbox end of the driveshaft) Fiat specify Petronas Tutela MRM ZERO grease, which is a yellow/brown colour as you describe. I think it's a lithium soap based grease.

If you haven't lost or contaminated any of the existing grease, then you could just reassemble the joint as it is. If any has been lost or contaminated, then you will need to wash out the joint and refill it with 85 grams of MRM ZERO. Unfortunately, as I found out a few years ago, MRM ZERO is very difficult to locate.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #42
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

Unfortunately there was a loss of grease, probably enough to need to replace it. I wasn't too bothered at the time and didn't make much effort to stop it cos i didn't think that there would any problem sourcing new stuff. Is there any equivalent more readily available, do we know? On that basis might need to think about making sure that the drivers side driveshaft remains intact when i pull the gb away?
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Old 4 Days Ago   #43
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re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

Quote Originally Posted by tessiedog View Post
Is there any equivalent more readily available, do we know?
There probably is, but I don't know of one.

When I needed some a few years ago, I phoned Petronas (01727 811213), who make Tutela and Selenia products. They gave me a list of companies that had bought MRM ZERO from them. Northgate Garage, (a Fiat dealer in Canterbury 01227 828200) posted me 2 tubes that arrived the next day.
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Re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

Thanks Davren
The stuff you've done in the name of car maintenance its amazing!
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Old 3 Days Ago   #45
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Re: Valeo clutch & Gearbox replacement

Your fitness fanatic son will be handy when refitting the gearbox since, you'll have to lift it somehow and then rotate it slightly clockwise to get it to line up. The beast wants to go on about 15 degrees too far anti-clockwise if you lift in on a trolley jack.

I used the burly lad from next door.. although he had to crawl under the car to get enough beef on it to lift it... the *****!

The bell-housing isn't too bad. It should survive the few inches of drop between the trolley-jack and the ground, once you've lowered it. Some layers of cardboard help cushion it, even if you don't need it to survive.

Once it's on the ground you'll need to lift the car more to get the gearbox out of the wheel arch. If (like me) you use your trolley jack to support the gearbox then the car has to be set quite low (on stands) so that your jack can reach the gearbox.

Then, once the gearbox is on the floor, you need your jack to lift the car higher, otherwise the gearbox won't fit underneath the sub-frame, bumper, airbox .. what have you... for you to pull it out. The cardboard comes in handy now since you can pull the gearbox out like a sledge. If it's just on the ground it's more difficult to manoeuvre it.

Space is the biggest problem... so a 3-tonne jack is better than a 2-tonne. They tend to have a higher lifting range and the higher you can lift the car the easier it is to find a way out for the gearbox through the wheel arch. I managed with a 2-tonne.

Take the n/s cup out when the box' is out. The o/s cup stays attached to the diff' and it won't trouble you normally. Put the cup back after you have re-fitted the gearbox - it's just one less thing to snag on the chassis or bodywork as you thread the gearbox through the limited space available.

I did a bit of poking around when I replaced my tripoid spiders. The grease has to be an EP (Lithium) and NLGI 0 (which relates to its viscosity - "normal" general purpose grease is an NLGI 2 for example). There were various types "available" from the usual suspects - Shell, Petronas, etc. - until you actually try to find someone who has any.

In the end I found Castrol Sheerol from these fellas. 500g is plenty if you use 85g (say 1/5 of the tub) each side.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-C....c100005.m1851

The bolts only have to be 8.8 high tensile. If they are (from memory) fine-pitch then it's impossible to find one that is not 8.8. They'll have "8.8" moulded onto the head. One of these can support 640kg before it starts to stretch and it won't let go until 800kg is put through it... which is half the weight of the whole car. It's plenty for a track rod end, etc. Grease the threads up a bit before you fit.. it lives in the wheel arch and it's normal steel so it'll be easier to remove next time if it's a little protected.


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