Hi

I am furious and utterly heartbroken.

My Fiat dealer want to charge me an estimated £1230 to replace my Heater Matrix, in addition to approx £350 to dry the inside of the car which is soaking wet, apparently as a result of the faulty Heater Matrix. Oh, and that's labour only... parts is extra.

The car (Stilo, 1.8 Dynamic, 3 Door) is between 2 and 3 years old and has less than 22000 miles on the clock. The dealer tells me that none of the work is covered under the 3rd year dealer warranty.

They have already begun the work to dry the inside of the car, but I have asked them to suspend work on the Heater Matrix whilst I do some more research.

Apparently, the problem with the Heater Matrix is that something (I don't know what) is jammed inside it, and they can't get it out. They have offered a "free workaround" that would save me the £1230 cost of replacing the Heater Matrix, which is to let them drill a hole in the Heater Matrix to try and remove the offending item. However, this is not guranteed to work, and since I don't have a clue what a Heater Matrix is, I don't know if it's a good idea to drill a hole in one.

If anyone can answer the following questions for me, I'd be eternally grateful:

1) What is a Heater Matrix?

2) Given the circumstances, is it a good idea to drill a hole in the Heater Matrix?

3) Isn't this fault covered under the 3rd year dealer warranty?

4) What else can I do to reduce the cost?

A little bit of background: The problem began last week after I picked up the car from Airport valet parking, when I noticed that the mat & carpet in the driver's side footwell of my Stilo was soaking wet. After a little experimentation, I concluded that water was being deposited inside the car only whenever the aircon was switched on. I took the car to my local Fiat dealer, who initially concluded that (as I expected) a pipe had disconnected itself from the aircon unit. Later that day, they called me to explain that whilst the mechanic was drying the car, they identified that actually the fault was with the Heater Matrix, which would take 14 hours to replace (because it is behind the dashboard) at £75/hour plus parts plus VAT. I am nowhere near technical enough to attempt the job myself.

The warranty booklet, which I assume explains what is (and is not) covered by the 3rd year dealer warranty, is locked inside the glovebox of my car, which is in the garage. D'oh!

I know that life isn't supposed to be fair, especially in the world of Fiat, but when a repair bill on a less-than-3 year old car equals one third of the value of the car itself, that's just taking the p*ss. This is the latest in a long line of random faults that the car has developed over the past two years, but the first not to be covered by Warranty.

My Stilo is a lovely car when it works.

Many thanks in advance for any help or advice.

Superleccy
UK

Firstly find out the reg date of your car, get all the cars details and your details and contact Fiat customer care on 0800 717000 and explain to them everything that has happened, before doing anything else.

For there to be a fault with the heater matrix means that its a manufacturing fault as its a sealed unit inside the heater box behimd the dashboard- so would be covered by even 3rd year warranty- as long as you've kept up with servicing.

For them to do a 'free workaround' means they would have to get the dash out to access the heater box anyway- for less than 1 more hour you could change the matrix itself !!! - they are taking the pi## big time, get your car back asap and go to another dealer if possible.

Also- what made them change their decision from Aircon pipe to heater matrix ?

I have had Ac condensation leaks into Stilo's before- never had a matrix problem before. If it is a matrix then the engine coolant level would need constant topping up, and would leak constantly, whereas a ac leak would only be with the ac on as you've said yourself - see if you can take it to another dealer for diagnosis of the problem.

£1600 is outrageous for that sort of job. Get in touch with Fiat and see what they say.

Hi Fiattech

Thanks for your reply... very encouraging. I will get onto Fiat 1st thing in the morning.

fiattech said:

Also- what made them change their decision from Aircon pipe to heater matrix ?

Click to expand...

I was wondering that myself, I don't think their explanation rings true. I will ask them.

fiattech said:

I have had Ac condensation leaks into Stilo's before- never had a matrix problem before. If it is a matrix then the engine coolant level would need constant topping up.

Click to expand...

I don't think it's coolant. The floor was swimming in liquid, yet I checked the coolant level (and all the other fluids too) and it was normal.

Cheers
Superleccy

if its matrix then it will smell like rotten fishy eggs,

I edited some bits of my post.

1) What is a Heater Matrix?
It's just a fancy name for a radiator just like your home central heating radiator and is a way of forcing a fluid or gas to come into contact with as much surface area as possible to lose or gain heat. The heater matrix is a totally different and separate item compared to the air con matrix although they do similar jobs

2) Given the circumstances, is it a good idea to drill a hole in the Heater Matrix?
Can't think of a good reason

3) Isn't this fault covered under the 3rd year dealer warranty?
Would have though tso

4) What else can I do to reduce the cost?
Go somewhere else where they know what they're doing

As been said before, it's more likely the air con matrix that's causing the problem. Didn't someone else post about a similar problem they had with a drain pipe being left off their air con matrix from manufacture and carpets soaking wet?

Something blocking the heater matrix won't cause a leak, the heater just won't work that's all

Provided the mats get dried out and you don't use the air con then there's nothing that urgent about it and will give you time to obtain 2nd opinions

You could even dry out the carpets yourself and start saving straight away

Have a look here for a schematic http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/aircon2.htm

The "evaporator" is the in car air con matrix

Thanks all very much. So, it seems that...

A) The Heater Matrix should be covered under warranty;

B) Although, the leak might not be anything to do with the Heater Matrix anyway;

C) And, their quote to replace the Heater Matrix is way over-the-top;

D) Something definately smells fishy, and it's not the liquid leaking into my car.

Armed with that amunition, I'm gonna ring Fiat first thing in the morning.

Thanks again!
Superleccy

Fiat time for replacing heater matrix is 9.75 hours, advise you remove car from garage and/or ask an expert to visit the car with you to see how the fault has occurred/been diagnosed. IF fault not covered by warranty then contact Fiat direct and kick up a stink, good luck.

NumanR said:

Fiat time for replacing heater matrix is 9.75 hours, advise you remove car from garage and/or ask an expert to visit the car with you to see how the fault has occurred/been diagnosed. IF fault not covered by warranty then contact Fiat direct and kick up a stink, good luck.

Click to expand...

You guys certainly know your stuff. Very reassuring that you and Fiattech are both on the Forum and are willing to help the rest of us.

What an awful tale , The best of luck with it, to be honest I have found the Fiat Warrenty people to be quite helpful, Let us know how its getting on

Being a suspicious old so and so I wonder if the a/c pipe has been broken when the drain hose has been refitted, there isnt alot of room and the plastic could break. When you inspect it, check the drain hose area for signs of damage.

Definately sounds like the AC and not the heater matrix.

I had a faulty matrix on my old Bravo and the signs are quite obvious... the coolant level will drop very quickly (can empty the reservoir in a couple of days), you can get steam coming out of the air vents (quite scary when you don't know your heater matrix has gone!) and the only real sign of moisture is around the back of the central console (around where the matrix is located).

A faulty matrix is a very rare problem. I know of one relatively new Punto that it failed on and this was covered under the warranty. My Bravo was 6 years old and had covered 80,000 miles when it went (and this was considered to be unusual too).

Mine was fixed in a day by my local friendly garage for £180 including the matrix itself!

Get the car out of the garage and take it to a garage you can trust.

If you look down at the bottom of the page in the similar threads section, you'll see you're not alone. Luckily I got mine fixed under warranty. It took two weeks to be repaired. It was the fishy egg steam coming from the vents, not the water pissing on the floor luckily. The car is never the same after the dash has been removed and refitted. Not just where they rip and scratch the decor on the pillers etc, but the whole dash will creak and rattle for the rest of it's life, and when the occasional bolt falls on to the floor, you can only wonder where it came from.

Hi there

This is just a short note to thank everyone for their support and advice on this thread. Frankly, I'd have been knackered without you!

The situation is now resolved. Not perfectly, but it got to a state where I decided it was time to cut my losses.

Have been a bit busy this week so no time to post the full story, but I just wanted to write and say thanks to all of you.

Will post an update soon!

Regards
Superleccy

Right-ho

Here is an update for those who wanted to know how the story ended. Am not looking for any advice, this is just to satisfy the curious, and serve as reference for anyone who has similar problems in the future.

A call to Fiat Customer Service confirmed that the heater matrix IS covered under the 3rd year warranty, parts and labour. However, carpets are NOT covered, even when the damage is caused by another fault that IS covered. So whatever happened, I'd have to have the carpets dried at my own expense. (I'd already instructed the garage to do this anyway at a cost of £350).

That same call also uncovered that "my" warranty was still in the name of the previous owner. This explains why I had not been contacted about an (unrelated) recall that I know is outstanding, despite buying the car used-approved from an authorised dealer.

However, the garage claimed that the warranty did not apply because the heater matrix was not actually faulty, it just had something jammed inside it. (Actually, at first they tried to tell me that the car wasn't covered by any sort of warranty at all, but I soon put them right on that one).

I did not have the chance to query this with Fiat, because despite my instructions, they'd already drilled a hole in the heater matrix to remove the "something". Apparently they'd then sealed up the hole somehow, and done all this without removing the dashboard. They said that this work took several hours, but they weren't charging me for it... just the £350 (approx.) for drying the carpets. They also said that the leaked liquid was a mix of coolant and water

Before collecting the car I asked the garage to save me the "something" that was blocking the heater matrix, and they said that would not be a problem. But of course, when I collected the car the "something" was conveniently locked in the mechanics toolbox. I was told they'd "pop it in the post".

Although there is no itemised charge for the heater matrix work on the invoice, it does refer to the work and describes it as a "temp fix".

The carpets are nice and clean, the aircon and heater both work fine, and two weeks later everything is still dry. The "something" has yet to arrive thru my letterbox.

Now... hmmm... I have mixed emotions about this. On the plus side, my car is OK (for now) and it's cost me much less than the £1580 I originally feared. Also, because they didn't remove the dashboard, I'm not suffering from a new host of squeaks, rattles and wobbles that other posters have described after major dashboard surgery.

On the minus side, I have a car with (what by the mechanic's own admission is) a temporary fix; a fault that might otherwise have been properly and permanently repaired under warranty. Knowing my luck (and my Stilo's track record), three months after the warranty expires the heater matrix will leak again over my nice dry carpets.

And, any garage who does "several hours" work for "no charge" is either unusually benevolent, or up to no-good. I'm still waiting for the "something" to appear through my letterbox.

Overall conclusion: it could be worse. I have decided that life is too short to worry about this any further.

Thanks again to everyone who posted with advice and support. You people rock.

Regards
Superleccy

Well done, looks like your dealer tells a good yarn. Did you name the dealer, remind me not to go there.

matrix not faulty but there is a leak, made a hole in it to remove a some thing, never heard such bolloks in all my life IMO the matrix was leaking they stuck a bottle of rad weld in, used valet machine to suck water out of carpets

I also believe that all repairs are gauranteed for 1 year after the repair.

Thanks for the update... was wondering what happened. Hope the "temp fix" lasts longer than a couple of weeks...

but if they've listed it as a temp fix doesn't this mean its not guaranteed?
I would definately be going back and finding out what they define temporary.