richydraper said:

those eLEARN diagrams were from the 1.6 option on my disc... that doesnt mean that they are build specific like ePER though. i wonder if the connector is build specific too as MEP says that his does not have the multiplug but you seem to have found it, it raises the question of if the CC pre-disposition was installed them maybe the ACC loom is included in that build setup...

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Mine actually has cruise control (don't all Abarths? ) so as you say, it seems to include the other wiring.

What's really promising is that the BMW radar module appears to have the same six wires as shown in your diagram. See http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=632783 Two of these wires are the "PT CAN" (Powertrain CAN bus) and I'd bet this will at least be compatible with the Stilo's CAN available to that connector. The radar node will talk on the CAN - but will anything listen? That is the question!

I think it will come down to whether FIAT have included the programming. One concern I have is that the ordinary cruise control fitted to BMWs can apply the brakes. Mine doesn't. Again it's a case of whether the programming is there in the Bosch ABS/ASR/VDC (ESP) unit. Theoretically any car with ESP can apply the brakes all by itself, but if it's not going to listen to instructions, it won't! (I find my Selespeed behaves like a teenager; sometimes it communicates with the engine for torque requests, sometimes it just does what it wants and blips the throttle for the hell of it).

The distance ring adjustment is four-position not three as I thought it was - so that will be no resistance, one resistance, two resistances, or three resistances. That will be the easiest part of the project to solve.

-Alex

DEAR GOD even 2nd hand they're nearly £400... looks like ill be trying to find a scrappy and a large pocketed jacket!

alexGS said:

I think it will come down to whether FIAT have included the programming. One concern I have is that the ordinary cruise control fitted to BMWs can apply the brakes. Mine doesn't. Again it's a case of whether the programming is there in the Bosch ABS/ASR/VDC (ESP) unit. Theoretically any car with ESP can apply the brakes all by itself, but if it's not going to listen to instructions, it won't! (I find my Selespeed behaves like a teenager; sometimes it communicates with the engine for torque requests, sometimes it just does what it wants and blips the throttle for the hell of it).
The distance ring adjustment is four-position not three as I thought it was - so that will be no resistance, one resistance, two resistances, or three resistances. That will be the easiest part of the project to solve.
-Alex

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as with everything else on fiats Alex ill put money on everything already being in place for this to work... could be as easy as a Proxi Alignment to get it working... the cruise control lamp requires an activation with MES but as it seems to be an extra node on top of normal CC so i *think* a proxi alignment should do the trick...

the reason your current cruise control doesnt aply the breaks is because it has no 'eye' to see whats in front of it so it wouldnt know if it needed to press the brake or not... the same way as you cruise control doesnt factor in changes in speed of the vehicle infront! all this voodoo trickery will be done inside the radar unit and it is that which will send messages down the can line to apply brakes, accelerate or decelerate to keep a set distance if so required.

i hope the resistance values will be easy to find... let me take another look at eLEARN to see if there is any info on there!

i have just phoned my local fiat parts dude and asked him to look into mounting brackets and things for it IF it was ever fitted to the stilos he said he will give Fiat UK a ring and see if there is any info they can provide... ill be honest i dont think he will come back with much because IF it was only fitted to the Abarths, fiat lock the screens of non-Abarth specialists so that virtually no info can be found out about them... luckily im slap bang in the middle of a regular Fiat dealer AND an Abarth Specialist so if my mate Phil cant turn out the goods ill pop over to Abarth maybe tomorrow morning! and see if they can shed any light on it.

richydraper said:

DEAR GOD even 2nd hand they're nearly £400... looks like ill be trying to find a scrappy and a large pocketed jacket!

Click to expand...

That's a bargain, then during January I spent twice that on replacing steering column, suspension, airflow meter, etc., spent about the same as that on a new stereo, and also the same as that on some tyres (actually it's been a good month, hasn't it...) and this month I'll be spending nearly three times that on a clutch and DMF (I've already generously exceeded the price I paid for the whole car in November). Might spend a bit more in March, as I'd like some new shocks and springs, too.

Strangely, I haven't had much spare money for grocery shopping, power bills, income tax, etc. since I bought my Stilo

This was rather a quaint article: http://www.carkeys.co.uk/features/adaptive-cruise-control

Here's a little more detail: (translated from German) and a picture of the module: http://translate.googleusercontent....d=0618&usg=ALkJrhjbdhLlRu0QbiClIv1KdZhygm2KCA
-Alex

eLEARN and DTE are not showing me anything on resistance values!?

richydraper said:

eLEARN and DTE are not showing me anything on resistance values!?

Click to expand...

The switch is only available as a complete unit, so there's no need for Fiat show any information about it's internal components.

alexGS said:

Here's a little more detail: (translated from German) and a picture of the module: http://translate.googleusercontent....d=0618&usg=ALkJrhjbdhLlRu0QbiClIv1KdZhygm2KCA
-Alex

Click to expand...

{the} 77 GHz radar sensor {can detect} moving objects, up to a distance of about 100 meters ahead of the vehicle and at an angle of + / - 4 degrees to the central axis. The data obtained is calculated in the sensor housing integrated controller, the relative position of these objects and selects the relevant {setting} for the {vehicles} cruise control. With braking and acceleration ACC adjusts the speed and thus the defined distance to the vehicle in front. {if the roadway is clear}, the vehicle accelerates to the preset speed.

litle snipets like the operational range and 'viewing angle' are all useful bits to know i guess

Davren said:

The switch is only available as a complete unit, so there's no need for Fiat show any information about it's internal components.

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though i MIGHT have been able to dig something from 'test procedures' or something to do with testing the stalks output but obviously not

This extra connector for the radar node, is it in the offside wheelarch? Where the horn and washer motor wiring is? I've got a free wiring plug in this area on my 1.2 Active. Wish I could upload a picture but my laptop's ****ed so need to use my phone.

In fact - Rich I'll upload one to facebook and you can check it out and see if it's of any value

richydraper said:

the reason your current cruise control doesnt aply the breaks is because it has no 'eye' to see whats in front of it so it wouldnt know if it needed to press the brake or not... the same way as you cruise control doesnt factor in changes in speed of the vehicle infront! all this voodoo trickery will be done inside the radar unit and it is that which will send messages down the can line to apply brakes, accelerate or decelerate to keep a set distance if so required.

Click to expand...

Ah - no, I was meaning how when I drive back from Auckland, I get to the top of the Bombay hills with speed set to 100km/h... then over the next few kilometres, the road drops by several hundred metres - I feel the throttle closing, engine surging slightly, then the speed builds to over 120km/h on the fully-closed throttle - clearly the cruise control can't cope, so I have to brake for it, which disengages it of course

My 500 was a Dualogic and that could be put into neutral in such conditions, reaching nearly 140km/h much more fun than a roller coaster, as it goes on for longer. Selespeed won't allow neutral... probably because that would blow the mind of the cruise control

Anyway the resistance values won't matter much, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it (pun not intended!) by making a simple voltage divider bridge with three identical resistances, or by getting a BMW stalk...

ill be honest i dont think he will come back with much because IF it was only fitted to the Abarths, fiat lock the screens of non-Abarth specialists so that virtually no info can be found out about them... luckily im slap bang in the middle of a regular Fiat dealer AND an Abarth Specialist so if my mate Phil cant turn out the goods ill pop over to Abarth maybe tomorrow morning! and see if they can shed any light on it.

Click to expand...

Lol! The Stilo wasn't considered an 'Abarth' - that's a brand set up to sell expensive Puntos and 500s in glitzy showrooms - for the Stilo it was just a few badges stuck on to what later became the "Prestigio" trim level what would an 'Abarth' dealer possibly gain from knowledge of a poor-selling deeply-reviled model from the past? They wouldn't be interested in selling a £400 part when they really want you to buy a £22000 car and want you to think that it's not a FIAT Sergio Marchionne would rather forget the Stilo, as it sold about a quarter as many as the previous management expected. Good luck anyway - would certainly be nice if they could/would help

I think you'll have more success talking to BMW about their retrofit kits they have made available to add active cruise control to existing cars. It's the polar opposite to FIAT's attitude - FIAT would rather we all scrapped our Stilos and bought 500Ls. Seriously! It even says in the back of the handbook that for cars six years old, FIAT will take them back at no cost to the owner, even when the car's value is negative - how generous

-Alex

dunno if were barking up the wrong tree in regards to Radar Node...

ive found bosch 0 203 000 001/0 203 000 016 as other part numbers for the node from the Bimmer E38 im not sure if the E9x should be the one were looking for if im honest but then again al of this thread is surmising at the moment! to be honest if its from around the early production run dates of the stilos i cant see it mattering MUCH but we need the 1st gen of the Radar Node from what i can make out. the wiring connectors are different on the BMs than the AMP Superseal i expected to see for the fiats. but thats a minor detail!

also the BMs are controlled by its own ECU i havent as of yet found an ACC stalk for the BMs or any info relating to ECUs but i think all we will need is the pin outs for the radar node to figure the rest out! the resistance thing is still worrying me a little but i suppose you could test with a pot and have fun playing with distances whilst active! hehehe

Phil from fiat just got back to me... all parts concerning the ACC are no longer available. although if it is any comfort Fiat UK did admit that it was infact offered as an option for the stilos but due to the severe lack of interest throughout the range it was discontinued and consequently unsupported.

on a completely different note does anybody have pinouts for the stilo engine ECUs (i.e. M1)?

Bosch Italy admitted to it HERE and ive already posted in the bravo section

on a plus side the lancia thesis owners manual mentions it... could be another avenue to explore

Is it possible that the Stilos that are (or were?) still being built in Brazil have the ACC option?

MarkThompson4 said:

Is it possible that the Stilos that are (or were?) still being built in Brazil have the ACC option?

Click to expand...

ill be damned if i can find any info relating to it!

From: Rich Draper
Sent: 30 January 2013 23:28
To: NEWTON Peter (FGA)
Subject: adaptive (radar) Cruise control for Stilo

Hello peter

Im looking into radar cruise control for my stilo and have stumbled across your press release from quite a few years back I was wondering if you could provide as much information on the system as you can. I am active on a variety of fiat forums and imsure the members on there would appreciate any information that they can collect in regards to the system!

Thaks in advance

Rich Draper

-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: NEWTON Peter (FGA)
Sent: 31 January 2013 17:48
To: Rich Draper
Subject: RE: adaptive (radar) Cruise control for Stilo

Rich,

I regret to say that I don’t have any information readily to hand on radar cruise control.

I’d be delighted to assist, but we simply don’t have anything like that here.

Best wishes
Peter Newton
Public Relations Director
Fiat Group Automobiles UK Ltd

---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rich Draper
Sent: 31 January 2013 19.29
To: NEWTON Peter (FGA)
Subject: adaptive (radar) Cruise control for Stilo

Thank you very much for your time Peter,

I am really only after the bosch part number for the original Radar module. Would you possibly be able to either pass on my enquiries or point me in the direction of somebody who may know/be able to source the information?

I really appreciate your reply, ill admit it was a bit of a stab in the dark as the press release was nearly 11 years old!

Thanks,

Rich

Click to expand...

Just thought id keep you guys posted... if you dont ask you dont get. yes ive mixed in a little sucking up

This is the only information I can find in eLEARN about ACC.

The eLEARN window is not expandable, so a few characters are missing from the right of the screen captures I made.
.

As usual Devran you have surpassed yourself... i wish i knew how to use eLEARN properly

richydraper said:

As usual Devran you have surpassed yourself... i wish i knew how to use eLEARN properly

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"The art of knowledge is not knowing everything............. it's knowing where to look"

EDIT: To find it in eLEARN, go to: Descriptions / 55 Electrical Equipment / 5580 Special Accessories / Introduction - Special Accessories. There's a section on normal Cruise Control first, scroll down to SPECIFICATIONS for the start of the ACC section.
.

Davren said:

"The art of knowledge is not knowing everything............. it's knowing where to look"

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ah yes, very good... well the screen prints have certainly thrown up a couple of issues that i personally didnt account for, things like all the ECUs the damn thing will be trying to talk to. i just wonder if there will be any issues with it not recieveing the expected responses from things like the instrument panel, if being used with anything less than the 2.4. im off to check MES for other ECUs to ensure that it is only the instrument panel that will cause issues!

:edit:
im actually quite confident after having a quick scan in MES... all the ECUs (apart from the Engine ECU*obviosly*) seem to match up by name at least... the status & warnings for the ACC are displayed on the MFD for the 2.4 so i dont think you would have any kind of information on the rest of the ranges instrument panel. the body computers differ slightly with one being a 'Marelli MF' and one being a 'Marelli' i dont know enough about them to confirm or deny compatibility. the engine ecus afaik shouldnt get in the way as the ACC will just send '+', '-', 'resume' or 'kill' signals through the CC system but from the way the eLEARN article is worded it doesnt seem like it uses CAN lines to transfer this data.

whats the difference between C-CAN and CAN?

I suspect the only role the cluster has to play in it, is to show the indications. If it is needed for something else, Abarth clusters are cheap enough and I think all the functions work on the petrol engines. Unlike the Abarth cluster I put in my JTD, I'd been driving it for about 6000 miles across Europe before I realised the oil pressure light didn't work.

I'd be more concerned about which ABS modulator and ECU you have. Not sure that the early Bosch 5.7 had the ability to actually apply the brakes.

im pretty sure the ones fitted with ASR can... from what i could figure out in the snow last week the engine kills power and applies the brake lightly. my front right kept squeaking which ONLY happens when i breath lightly on the brake pedal!

richydraper said:

im pretty sure the ones fitted with ASR can... from what i could figure out in the snow last week the engine kills power and applies the brake lightly. my front right kept squeaking which ONLY happens when i breath lightly on the brake pedal!

Click to expand...

ASR (on paper) should kill power and not apply any brakes if both wheels are spinning, or if only one spinning is shouldn't cut any power, but apply the brake of the spinning side only. If it does this in practicality is a different matter though.

never the less it has enough control to apply the brake... Which in theory is what we need it to do!

I didnt know that... Thanks MEP!