Hello fellow fiat drivers,

I discovered that the main engine bearings of my stilo barth 2.4 are at its end (build 2002). I hear a short rattling sound when shifting and also at certain higher rpm ( around 4000 rpm).

Knowing that the stilo abarth has it's sophisticated electronics -especially the selespeed gearbox- I kinda dread the worst on how to take this on.

Any tips and tricks on how to fix this with the least possible "pain"? Perhaps there are some instruction manuals available on the net?

For example: do I need to get the engine completely out of the enginebay, or can the bearings be replaced while the engine is still in the engine bay eg. move the gearbox a little bit to the side?

Hope for some comment. Thanks in advance.

I just informed today that the 2.4 5 cylinder engines have a weak spot with the bearings of the piston rods (probably pistons 2 to 4). In my case I used wrong oil (10w60) that caused damage to these bearings. I've been told that its easier to dismount the crank case when the engine is out of the engine bay. Anyone can confirm that?

appreciate any feedback

thanks

I've never done one but I would've thought so as you'll need to have the gearbox off to remove the crank shaft ( you won't be able to just shift the box sideways ), and to move the gearbox, you'll pretty much have to take the engine out plus you'll work on it a lot easier when it's out and in the light of day as opposed to under the car

Also are you sure the the 10w60 grade oil is the reason the engine is knackerd?? 10w60 has been used quite a lot in other peoples 2.4's on here with no complaints of failure? I must admit its not my choice of grade but I would've thought it was quite safe to use? It is a well known fact that some 2.4's use a lot of oil compared to other engines? How often do you check your oil? perhaps there was an inadequate amount of oil in the engine which staved the bearings of the lubrication they needed?

You don't necessarily have to remove the crankshaft of an engine to replace the bearings. You just remove the caps one at a time and slip the bearings out. Use something that won't scratch the crank. If you want to replace the rear seal you will be out of luck. It all depends on whether the sump comes off easily with engine in place. Haven't looked at Stilo but did it once on a Lancia Beta and was such a pain I always removed the engine after that.

Hello Gadgemeyster,

I think the bearings of the piston shafts are busted because of the fact that i changed the oil type. At least thats what i've been told. Especially the 2.4 petrol engine of fiat is very sensitive concerning the oil.

The first question i was asked was: did you change the oil type.... and the answer is yes

Perhaps the engine also already had its best time....I dont know. But i'm not happy with a busted engine right now.

Now that i'm writing i have a question: is it possible that the valves got damaged because the bearings of the piston shaft have failed? could the pistons have touched the valves because the piston might have moved higher than normal?

greetz

Hello Maigretnz,

WHat do you mean with the rear seal? you mean the crank seal between the engine and the gear box?

I think thats exactly what they have warned me against: the sump probably doesnt come off very easily. But what is the difficult part? I dont quite understand frankly.

I saw some bolts which were easy to reach, so what could be the problem?

Crank seal, yes. Flywheel probably has to come off. Some engines have a split seal (my Landrover I think) but then that is designed to be fixed in remote locations.
The Lancia had a subframe that restricted sump removal.The FIAT looks easier so if you can lift it clear give the job a try. The sump normally needs to drop down some distance to clear things. Don't worry about the seal if it is not obviously leaking. It is unlikely the pistons have touched the valves as the amount of wear causing the engine to rattle is small compared to the stroke of the engine. Just do one cap at a time to avoid problems with timing belt and rear seal.
As gadgemyster said, damage more likely due to oil starvation than oil grade not quite right.

bloodiron said:

Hello Gadgemeyster,

I think the bearings of the piston shafts are busted because of the fact that i changed the oil type. At least thats what i've been told. Especially the 2.4 petrol engine of fiat is very sensitive concerning the oil.

The first question i was asked was: did you change the oil type.... and the answer is yes

Perhaps the engine also already had its best time....I dont know. But i'm not happy with a busted engine right now.

Now that i'm writing i have a question: is it possible that the valves got damaged because the bearings of the piston shaft have failed? could the pistons have touched the valves because the piston might have moved higher than normal?

greetz

Click to expand...

No I doubt very much that the valves would be damaged as the thickness of the bearing still would'nt be enough to reach the valves - you are more likely to have damaged the little end bearings in the piston head itself? But usually the big end bearings take the brunt of the damage so you may well be ok

There's a lot of topics and opinions on what engine oil is best for the abarth - personally I've found there nowhere near as bad as people make out for instance, the handbook says mine should use 10w40 semi synthetic ( I think? ) but I've been using 0w30 fully synthetic for quite a while now and it still runs nice and sweet mine does go though a lot of oil however - this has been picked up by other abarth owners too ( but not all ) however the dipstick is notoriously bad on the 20v engine and it has to be on dead level ground when you check as you can get a really bad false reading it? It could well have failed because there simply wasn't enough oil in the sump?

Thanks for all the usefull info. It gives me a bit more hope to take it on with this job.

I havent started dismantling the crank case yet, but will do so perhaps this evening in my uncles garage.

I will give updates soon...

Thanks again.

So here's the first update.

The nr 2 cilinder crank bearings have failed. The expert already mentioned that it was probably the second cylinder bearings, which was right in this case (weakness of the 2.4 engine).The upper shell slided over the lower shell causing the engine to cut off out of safety.

we've already replaced all the bearings but the number 2 cylinder crank has a bigger clearance now, so we are waiting for the oversized bearing at this moment. It needs about 0.1mm extra thick bearings.

The problem in this case was perhaps that the engine drank away the 10W60 spec oil running the engine dry for a while causing the bearings to fail. It drank away almost half the oil in a few weeks which is extremely fast. Perhaps I drove about 400 to 500 kilometers with that oil. I still dont understand where the oil went to. There is almost no smoke out of the exhaust... very strange.

WHat could be the problem of this oil disappearing out of the engine. There is no leakage or any signs of oil being burned away. Any ideas?

greetz.

It's a funny thing isn't it? Mines the same (although not as bad) and I have no idea where it goes either? It runs sweet enough and too don't have any leaks as such? All I know is to keep checking the dipstick every week and top up when it's low

There is one theory though: The oil is not burning in the combustion chamber. it's burning away in the crank bearings. not sure if that can cause the oil level to drop that fast.

Perhaps this explaines why the engine of my stilo smelled of burned oil before the bearing failed. You have to think that there are 5 of those bearings burning away oil continiously....??????

An other one is that the oil is being burned away because the crank breather doesnt work properly, as i've been told. Not sure if that is possible at all. this would mean that the oil enters the combustion chamber through the inlet manifold. In my case the inlet manifold always contains somewhat oil inside....?????Could this be the problem of oil disappearing?

greetz

The oil is unlikely to get burnt in the bearings unless the oil is very overheated.
Most common places for oil to go.

Leaks...

Piston rings.
The oil control ring stops oil entering the cylinder and getting burnt. (steady blue smoke under power)
Worn compression rings cause the sump to pressurise. There is always a little, that is what the breather is for. Excess though will cause a lot of oil and vapour getting into the inlet manifold. (more blue smoke) Remove oil filler cap when running and you will soon know if excessive.

Worn valve guide seals. Puff of blue smoke after a period of engine braking. The vacuum in the inlet manifold sucks oil down the stems. Also if the car has been parked on an angle some of the remaining oil in the top of the engine can leak down giving a puff of blue smoke on start up. My car does this when parked nose down hill. Not really worth fixing unless the head has to come off for something else. I just back into the driveway instead.

Hey Maigretnz,

I think thats the problem of my Stilo: the puff of oil after a while of engine braking. So than it should be the valve guide seals as you say. Can that cause that much oil burning away, that fast?

I basically I did not realise that bad valve seals can cause the oil level to drop so fast.

When I get the engine running again i will also check the pressure from the oil filling cap. Which I thought was normal.

Still waiting for the oversized bearings btw

Thanks for the help.

Try a different brand of oil within the right specifications to see if that helps. I tend to check oil when filling fuel tank. Every 2nd or 3rd fill I put some oil in. The petrol stations have nice level floors too.

I'm planning to use 5w40 full synthetic.

Or should I use a different spec?

Still waiting for the bearings.

That's what I'm gonna be using next mate, I've used both 10w40 and 0w30 and it's ran fine but I find 5w40 is a lot closer than to the recommended spec and is a lot cheaper .... Bear in mind though winters comming so choose a good brand

Still trying to get the Stilo healthy with no succes.

The engine now also is smoking like a chimney at first start...but thats after the 10W40 spec oil. Should turn back to 5W40. I also read on this forum that the small holes in the oil rings of the pistons might be clogged causing the extra consumption of oil.

But this all doesnt matter with a busted crank. So I'm thinking of getting rid of the Stilo. There's just about 82K km's on the clock which is a pity for a potentially fine car.

However: one thought is busying my mind. Is there enough space in the engine bay to split the gearbox from the engine to disassemble the crank, without removing the engine completely out of the engine bay?

If not...then I'm not putting any effort in this thing again. I'm a bit disappointed in this project.