Car went in 5 weeks ago for timing belt change - drove her twice, broke down twice, AA called twice - cars been a resident at garage for 5 weeks!

Original faults after timing belt and 2 x aux belts changed... dumping fuel, lumpy handling, stalling, bad idle, choking to death

They've changed the belt twice, sent the ECU away for checking - no fault as it is a new one fitted in Dec... changed my plugs that go into the ECU as well as cleaning everything!

The car (or so they tell me) is now driving well, stopped dumping fuel, but ... is still idling on the low.... and has now developed the following...

the engine management light is constantly on, and so it the imobiliser light, open connection.... no fault codes showing

Can someone please confirm that a phonic wheel learn needs to be activated by Fiat (due to belt changes)
also, is there a wire that has been disconnected from the ECU which could cause the imobiliser to show up a warning fault on the dash, but not on the code reader?

Many thanks

Sadly there have been numerous tales on here of garages who don't know what they're doing, making a pig's ear of fitting timing belts to Stilos. Sounds like yours is another. I suggest you ask them to go back to fundamentals and ensure they've timed the belt correctly. It sounds to me like they have not.

They've really been mucking about. I want them to take her to Fiat. It seems to me she needs a re learn

Thats why I was asking about 'phonic wheel learn'

like yellow peril says, it sounds as though the timing is out. IIRC the stilo needs a cam locking kit when changing the belt.

odds on, the garage thought they could do it without

they've told me that they bought the proper tools for the job. They've change the timing belt twice, and checked the compression rates... all fine.

If they take it to Fiat, can Fiat preform a computer test which will show them that the other garage has fitted it wrong?

what engine is it?

1.6v dynamic. She use to drive like a dream...
Should never have taken her to a normal garage for a the timing belt change .. hind sight is a terrible thing

RedRuby said:

1.6v dynamic. She use to drive like a dream...
Should never have taken her to a normal garage for a the timing belt change .. hind sight is a terrible thing

Click to expand...

It happened to me as well (got the same 1.6 16v), took it to a local garage, they checked it three times and said it was fine. I then took it to fiat and they said it was out a tooth, refitted it and had no problems since (I had bad idle, cutoffs, power loss, no error messages or lights on the dash though).

I advise not running the car till you go to a Fiat garage with it, might do some more damage.

Andy

Yellow Peril said:

Sadly there have been numerous tales on here of garages who don't know what they're doing, making a pig's ear of fitting timing belts to Stilos. Sounds like yours is another. I suggest you ask them to go back to fundamentals and ensure they've timed the belt correctly. It sounds to me like they have not.

Click to expand...

Do you think it would be best to let Fiat change the cambelt? I'm getting my cambelt changed soon but after reading these posts about garages not doing it properly I'm tempted to pay that bit extra and take it to Fiat.

Phil

if you have an independent you trust and have used before, and know people use without problems, then it shouldnt be a problem.

in my area theres a garage my family use that i wouldnt even let them change a bulb, the other, a company a mate works for, i trust, and will do anything from bangers to prestige, cars to 7.5ton.

next step if you're still unsure is a fiat/alpha specialist. not sure of yorkshire, but i know in the northwest theres a fiat place i use that is properly recognised by fiat and they do warranty work. its like a dealer but they dont sell cars

finally is fiat themselves.

each one will be an increased cost.

philipb82 said:

Do you think it would be best to let Fiat change the cambelt? I'm getting my cambelt changed soon but after reading these posts about garages not doing it properly I'm tempted to pay that bit extra and take it to Fiat.

Phil

Click to expand...

In view of other's problems, it's certainly worth considering. And you get a two year parts and labour warranty on FIAT repairs as I recall...

The problem is i've paid out £350 for this timing belt - and dont wanna pay a penny more

I just want my car back in the same state it went in :bang:

RedRuby said:

1.6v dynamic. She use to drive like a dream...
Should never have taken her to a normal garage for a the timing belt change .. hind sight is a terrible thing

Click to expand...

i dont know that engine well. can anyone confirm if it has a floating cam pulley or fixed?

not sure dave, but odds on it was a tooth out. as for the errors on the dash, buggered timing would show this as the ecu will detect emissions buggered, misfire etc.

the immobilisor stumps me, it could be because the car cant run for a great length of time the battery is getting low, im sure this is one of the errors i had on a low battery

dave said:

i dont know that engine well. can anyone confirm if it has a floating cam pulley or fixed?

Click to expand...

Fixed altho it is adjustable

RedRuby said:

The problem is i've paid out £350 for this timing belt - and dont wanna pay a penny more

I just want my car back in the same state it went in :bang:

Click to expand...

Go to a fiat garage and ask them to check the timing belt, if they say it's out you can ask them to personally call the garage that fitted the belt wrong and they will ask for your money back and explain what was wrong. It might be worth a shot.

Also I can second that it's a fixed tensioner but adjustable. It seems that independent garages have no knowledge of how to properly time a 1.6 engine...

I wish you good luck RedRuby

andreist31 said:

Also I can second that it's a fixed tensioner but adjustable. It seems that independent garages have no knowledge of how to properly time a 1.6 engine...

Click to expand...

... Pulley...

a fixed tensioner is an idler

richydraper said:

... Pulley...

a fixed tensioner is an idler

Click to expand...

Pulley I meant haha you understood what I wanted to say

im about to bring my MSPaint skills to the table and try to help you guys understand why timing can be set wrong.

Valve timing is determined by the relationship between crankshaft position and camshaft(s) relative to each other. basically at any given crankshaft position the cams have to be in the correct position too. this is because they have to operate the valves to let gasflow in and out of cylinder at the correct moment.

now the 1.6 is what is a relatively 'short stroke' engine which means that the pistons don't travel as far up and down as other Stilo engines. if you have a short stroke engine it means that valve timing has to be dialled in that much more accurately than that of a longer stroke lump. this is probably why so many garages have trouble getting it right first time because what 'will do' for a lot of other engines simply 'wont do' for our beloved (read:- wretched) Fiats.

this is a representation of the cam pulleys when everything is set up correctly. Exhaust is the left pulley, Intake on the right (red markers being the belt position, yellow markers being pulley position)


overtime your belt naturally stretches and this will throw your timing out. given engine rotation is CLOCKWISE note how the markers have all moved away from each other. The exh has become 'advanced' and the inlet 'retarded'


what you need to do is get everything back inline as in the first polaroid

so the engine is set to TDC the belt removed and a new one fitted. it seems like a given that the replacement belt will be of identical design and everything will line up PERFECTLY the stretch effect mentioned earlier will be eliminated and were good to go...

BUT...

chances are it wont line upright so you will end up with something like this (or worse :yuck


now no matter how hard you try the pulleys will always be out you could move it round a tooth either way but it will still be out this is because it maybe half a tooth out... so now you would have to slacken the pulley bolt off (green circles) lock the cam in the correct position and retighten the cam pulley bolt. iirc there is UPTO half a tooth adjustment in the cam pulley but im not certain.

this practise of locking the cams is something most garages arent really to hot on and they just tipex the cam positions before they start... all well and good... untill the crank moves. the cambelt kit for the 1.6 has various locking plates and all should be used to ensure correct fitment... if any of you have managed to time one up without the tools then kudos, well done, now go buy a lottery ticket before your luck runs out! the problem is that the kits are over £150 in some places and its not viable for garages to buy them or put them on a customers bill due to the cost (where as most are only £20-30). i must admit ive timed the '02 VAG 1.2 engine up by eye and it started first time and ill be honest i personally would have a go at the stilo but id be bricking it every second i was doing it untill it ran right.

im done blithering now so ill bid you all a 'good day' and ride my scabby donkey off into the distance

Richy, that is by far the best explanation I've seen on timing the 1.6 16v stilo engine. Fair play to you cheers!