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Old 08-05-2011   #1
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1.6 clutch slip and judder

Hi,
more trouble with our 1.6 54 plate stilo; Had gearbox rebuilt,(diff failure) put new clutch in,not many miles ago,after which the bolt holding the 5th gear on the shaft fell out.
Gearbox diff removed new bolt locktited in. That will be the end of gearbox probs right? Wrong.
Clutch has now started juddering intermittently and also recently now it's started slipping.
Before I waste time investigating, PLEASE has anyone got an idea whats wrong?

Is there any adjustment? Could it be contamination due to an oil leak?
I'm sure I'm not the first person to experience this fault.
The clutch set came from Euro car parts.

Any help greatfully received ,thanks in advance Ken
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Old 08-05-2011   #2
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

The clutch release is hydraulic so there's no adjustment.

Juddering and slipping is likely to be oil contamination.
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Old 09-05-2011   #3
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

Quote Originally Posted by Davren View Post
The clutch release is hydraulic so there's no adjustment.

Juddering and slipping is likely to be oil contamination.
Thanks, that's what I feared. This will be the 3rd time if I have to take out the gearbox.
Maybe someone has had this fault and has a magic fix, without removing the box.
It may look a beautiful car but it's not a patch on our 1991 panda for reliability,
( normal Fiat faults accepted) Oh well! Who coined the phrase "fix it again tomorrow"?
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Old 09-05-2011   #4
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

after reading this i was curious how many people in here have the rubber cap on the transmission top where you can see the timing thru the clutch? mine doesnt have one unless the stupid mechanics removed it and didnt bother to put it back on.
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Old 16-05-2011   #5
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

Hi,
still using the car so it's not too serious. Can anyone give me a heads up on this fault?

I can't smell oil burn from the clutch and the judder and slip is intermittant. The slip occurs mainly in 5th gear up hills. This clutch was brand new a few thousand miles ago. The diff oil seal was changed when it was rebuilt after the usaul diff pin failure. The bolt securing the 5th gear to its shaft came out so there was no drive in 5th. I loctited a new bolt in so I doubt that is the fault.And it will either have drive in 5th or not.
I didn't renew the crank shaft oil seal as I didn't want to remove the flywheel and It looked perfectly dry.
If oil is the cause I suppose the crank seal would be the reason. I did read a post somewhere where oil was was washed from the clutch through a hole in the case.
Could it be the clutch not sliding on the shaft due to burring having occured? I did lub the shaft with some aircraft grade anti seize compound. I am not sure of the quality of "Euro car parts" clutches, have these failed with other owners?

I'm sure someone has experienced this problem before. Any help gratefully received.

regards ken
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Old 16-05-2011   #6
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

The slip occurs mainly in 5th gear up hills.
How high do you think your clutch is biting? Is it very high, near the top of pedal travel?


Judder might be caused by the gearbox rear shock mount not being tightened properly allowing the whole engine to move and rock on take up of drive. Jack up one wheel and with the car in gear rock the wheel forcefully each way and look for too much movement at this mount. It'll move a bit but the whole engine shouldn't be moving too easily here
Click image for larger version

Name:	rear mount 1.JPG
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Look for movement around this rear most bolt (shown centre and bottom in the photo)

Click image for larger version

Name:	1.6 engine mount rear 2.JPG
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ID:	90586
The centre hole is much bigger than the fixing bolt that goes through it. Fits like a brick in a bucket and so the centre bolt has to be tightened enough to hold it still. If it doesn't then you will get clutch judder on pulling away
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Last edited by Deckchair5; 16-05-2011 at 18:36.
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Old 16-05-2011   #7
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

Thanks, I will check that. The mount was changed when the diff was refitted and the hole in the new one is bigger than the original as you say so I had to retighten it after a while.
The movement when engine is rocked seems normal.
regards
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Old 16-05-2011   #8
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

Clutch pedal does bite at the top of travel, it did before with the old clutch plate too, which still had plenty of wear left. What is the signifigance of this please.
Thanks regards Ken
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Old 17-05-2011   #9
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

If your clutch bites really high then it's the sign of an old clutch on its last legs as you found out

A high bite on the new clutch means it's only just hanging on with grip and will slip at the least provocation, the same effect as you driving around with your foot resting too heavily on the clutch pedal. Although the clutch being hydraulic means it should be self adjusting, more often when the clutch is replaced then the clutch hydraulics need to be reset

I had the opposite with my new clutch, the bite point was only just off the floor and it would not self adjust and come up on it own. It was undriveable and I had to make the bite point move up a lot which I did by securing the slave cylinder push rod when extended and dragging the clutch pedal up. That did the trick effectively putting more fluid volume in the system

So although the clutch is self adjusting it sometimes needs a little help to get into the ball court to start with. After that it's fine

As you have a high bite, try releasing fluid as in a normal clutch hydraulics bleed and see if that drops the bite point. Have a look in the Stilo guides for how to bleed the clutch if you're not sure
If your clutch is slipping a lot then it will quickly overheat and that too will cause juddering on pulling away until it cools down again
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Last edited by Deckchair5; 17-05-2011 at 00:30.
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Old 17-05-2011   #10
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

Thankyou, I try all the things you suggest. Incidentally, the old clutch was only half worn and was working fine, even though the bite was at the top.
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Old 17-05-2011   #11
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

It's not just the clutch material, the clutch pressure plate spring fingers get tired with age and that gives the high bite and slipping clues of a clutch assembly that is worn out and needs changing. I also had quite a bit of material remaining on mine but it was slipping and unable to transmit drive properly due to worn out pressure plate
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Last edited by Deckchair5; 17-05-2011 at 13:34.
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Old 18-05-2011   #12
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

Thanks, I changed the pressure plate with the clutch, I couldn't find a supplier of just the clutch.
Fingers crossed it's the hydraulic fluid tip you gave me that will cure both faults. I'll post how I get on when i've done it, need to find time when the cars not being used.
regards
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Old 24-05-2011   #13
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

Hi folks, wonder if you can help me here, I've driven my dads stilo back from auction and the clutch is very high up for the bite, and is also revving heavily but taking its time to get up to speed very slowly.

Its like the gears aren't ready to speed up but the engine is happy to scream(although never pushed engine past 4000rpm)! lol

anyway there is also an issue of the car overheating easily but seems to cool down very quickly once stopped, like a minute or two then cools, this happened about 10 times during a 45 mile drive home. bit too quick for my liking, faulty thermonitor or head gasket change?

thanks for your help if any given!

sorry its a 5 door estate 1.9 JTD
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Old 24-05-2011   #14
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

My advice? Take it back to the auction a.s.a.p. and ask for a refund! You've bought a pup.
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Old 24-05-2011   #15
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Re: 1.6 clutch slip and judder

Sounds like clutch worn out and water pump not functioning. So depending on what you paid for it that could be sound advice
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