Hi

When parked on a slope, my fiat has been increasingly difficult to start.

I noted that the air mass sensor was absolutely coated in oil and have cleaned it. The bottom of the air box was also very oily.

Attempting to start the car recently has been an increasingly difficult problem and on occasion it will tick over but not build up revs and has no power. This is accompanied by half the street being filled with blue smoke. Eventually. it will start, revs pick up and it operates normally as if the oil blockage has been sucked through, or burnt off.

Its as if there's an oil blockage somewhere, or perhaps oil being sucked into the injectors via the turbo (??) and blocking them.

Can someone help me plz, and work through what the likely suspects are and where to find them - as the car is won't start and I desperately NEED it asap.

Tia.

cheesequarterpounder said:

Hi

When parked on a slope, my fiat has been increasingly difficult to start.

I noted that the air mass sensor was absolutely coated in oil and have cleaned it. The bottom of the air box was also very oily.

Attempting to start the car recently has been an increasingly difficult problem and on occasion it will tick over but not build up revs and has no power. This is accompanied by half the street being filled with blue smoke. Eventually. it will start, revs pick up and it operates normally as if the oil blockage has been sucked through, or burnt off.

Its as if there's an oil blockage somewhere, or perhaps oil being sucked into the injectors via the turbo (??) and blocking them.

Can someone help me plz, and work through what the likely suspects are and where to find them - as the car is won't start and I desperately NEED it asap.

Tia.

Click to expand...

Hi there

The blue smoke is indicating that you have some oil residue in the turbo but it could also mean that their maybe a further issue. How long has the car been burning blue smoke for? Is it frequent or just recent? Do you have a low rev range lack of power say between 1500 RPM and 2000RPM during normal driving? Is your car producing a Kangarooing effect at any given time when driving? does your car have a high mileage??

One thing is for sure you will need to take your air box, air intake pipes and breather pipes off to remove the oil residue and also any residue visible form the turbo intake. The cost of taking a turbo apart and cleaning its components is far to expensive so these would be the best steps to take in order to stop any further oil from spilling in to your MW`s turbo.
From my previous experience of the exact same scenario the reason for the oil spillage is down to 2 faulty components.

If you have not disconnected the MAF sensor and giving the car a drive then this should be your first step. After disconnecting the sensor and going for drive, if the car is behaving a lot better then this is your first part which will need to be replaced as it proves to be faulty. You can by all mean attempt to clean the sensor with some contact cleaner but the chances are that it will need replacing as these are common Fiat Bosch components which tend to eventually malfunction and need replacing.

Your next corporate part is the EGR valve, commonly a very aggravating component which clogs up and at times the inner solenoid jamms either fully open or closed. If you can have this part clean and check over, if the EGR proves faulty then this part will also need to be replaced.

These are the two main components which initially will definitely need to be checked and replaced if proven faulty, and if any are replaced please make sure that you have had your air intake system and pipe work clean free from oil residue.

Hope this helps

Hi,

Thanks for taking to reply with such a comprehensive reply, which I'm digesting.

I've had the car 4 months and it's done 105k.

The first problem was lack of power at low revs, which was resolved to startling effect when the very oily MAF was cleaned with a solvent.

When changing the oil filter, I noted that the filter housing box and the filter itself was very oily.

Nevertheless, after cleaning the MAF it proceeded to make the car go like a rocket.

Ive had a car with a failing turbo before, where the bearings failed. No, the blue smoke isn't constant, or at start up - execpt with increasing frequency, when the thing just won't start and the car is surrounded by large clouds of blue smoke.

I've taken your comments on board and will investigate further .... and will clean the oil residues from where I can/check breather and turbo oil feed pipes. Obviously, I want to treat the cause and not the symptom ! It may eventually require the services of a specialist by the looks of it ... ( Nevertheless, I'll have a look round to see what I can see.

Thank you

cheesequarterpounder said:

Hi,

Thanks for taking to reply with such a comprehensive reply, which I'm digesting.

I've had the car 4 months and it's done 105k.

The first problem was lack of power at low revs, which was resolved to startling effect when the very oily MAF was cleaned with a solvent.

When changing the oil filter, I noted that the filter housing box and the filter itself was very oily.

Nevertheless, after cleaning the MAF it proceeded to make the car go like a rocket.

Ive had a car with a failing turbo before, where the bearings failed. No, the blue smoke isn't constant, or at start up - execpt with increasing frequency, when the thing just won't start and the car is surrounded by large clouds of blue smoke.

I've taken your comments on board and will investigate further .... and will clean the oil residues from where I can/check breather and turbo oil feed pipes. Obviously, I want to treat the cause and not the symptom ! It may eventually require the services of a specialist by the looks of it ... ( Nevertheless, I'll have a look round to see what I can see.

Thank you

Click to expand...

I am glad that the blue smoke symptoms are not frequent and it does seem to indicate that whatever is causing the oil residue has not fully affected the turbo, as you have said you have experienced a turbo failure and know what to expect, the turbo just seems to keep burning the oil spillage through.

My honest advice is to also get your EGR valve checked, this device is nasty and when clogged up over thousands of miles of exhaust gas it becomes a problematic inconvenience, loss of power is a common effect.

Do be careful as the oils seems to still be surging through your engine air pipes so it will carry on contaminating your turbo, MAF and other components until you find the source of the problem.

Keep us updated

@canavaro - my mate is having similar problems (all be it with a Fiesta) but we were chatting about this last night and we were talking about MAF and EGR issues...this has confirmed that it is the first thing he should be looking for, so cheers, some really useful info

jdm89 said:

@canavaro - my mate is having similar problems (all be it with a Fiesta) but we were chatting about this last night and we were talking about MAF and EGR issues...this has confirmed that it is the first thing he should be looking for, so cheers, some really useful info

Click to expand...

No probs at all

This is what I went through in my old JTD and thanks to this beloved, God blessed Forum with all its information and kind people I got to work and managed to sort the car out and once again save some money

Ok, wilco.

Job for Sunday methinks.

Will try and drain and clean up oil residues first, particularly those lurking at bottom of air-intake box and turbo breather pipes. Not sure, but I suspect the oil at the bottom of the air intake box is being sucked into the turbo breather pipe ??? If push comes to shove, as an emergency measure - I may consider drilling a small hole (or holes) in the bottom of the air intake box (housing the air filter) to allow the accumulated oil residues to drip out below.

Next, will be a look at the egr valve. I was wondering if there's a way of testing if it works without dismantling it. Perhaps disconnecting the power supply to see what happens ??

Oh great, a grease up to the elbows kinda day ahead .... !

cheesequarterpounder said:

Ok, wilco.

Job for Sunday methinks.

Will try and drain and clean up oil residues first, particularly those lurking at bottom of air-intake box and turbo breather pipes. Not sure, but I suspect the oil at the bottom of the air intake box is being sucked into the turbo breather pipe ??? If push comes to shove, as an emergency measure - I may consider drilling a small hole (or holes) in the bottom of the air intake box (housing the air filter) to allow the accumulated oil residues to drip out below.

Next, will be a look at the egr valve. I was wondering if there's a way of testing if it works without dismantling it. Perhaps disconnecting the power supply to see what happens ??

Oh great, a grease up to the elbows kinda day ahead .... !

Click to expand...

To test the EGR to see if it is faulty simply follow these steps (Argonought`s posts, Pag 2, posts 17 to 27) :

https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/154786-1-9-jtd-115-poor-mpg-black-smoke-egr-maf-2.html

If you wish to remove and clean it completely then follow this Fiat Forum guide:
https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo-guides/263681-clean-egr-valve-1-9jtd-8v-engine.html

Hope this helps

Thank you,

Guides much appreciated.

I did start stripping the EGR valve off once before, but ran out of time - and fingers !

Bit of a pig undoing the hex bolts, but I'll have another go Sunday. The EGR valve dismantling/cleaning guide pics on the link are useful.

Am well aware that they can block up as I had to clean that on my old Golf Tdi diesel as well (that managed 225k and was still going, before I sold it to buy the Fiat - oops - sorry Fiat owners ! ). Primary cause of EGR valve filling with crud is usually slow/town driving as the gasses don't flow fast enough and clog it. A damn good thrash now'n again helps to keep it clear - it worked for me ! Only cleaned it the once in 225k ....

Roll on Sunday then .... zzzzz

Fingers crossed, job done.

EGR valve removed (albeit with much swearing etc) and it wasn't too grubby. All ports cleaned etc. Judging my the state of the EGR valve, I assumed it was working. I did clean it up with a spray solvent.

The impossible bit, was the two hex bolts at the rear - facing upwards. In the end, I had to disconnect the waste pipe lower down ... very tricky, but possible with patience and a bit of care.

Then the MAF sensor was cleaned again (still dry from the last time I did it) and all the rubber pipework to the turbo was removed and sprayed with a solvent to flush it clean.

What it did do, was drill a small hole in bottom of the oil-trap box built in below the air filter, since there appears to be no way of draining it. About 3/4 of a point of oil ran out, suggesting it was nearly full. There's a pipe from the turbo connected to the oil trap box, which suggests that perhaps the source of the oil was from the very full oil trap box below the air filter. The hole ~I drilled should now take care of that. Must take care when wading deep water in future tho !

How did you guys get the screws out of the maf i went to clean mine today and it had 5 side torx security screws :S ive never even seen a 5 sided 1 before.

cheesequarterpounder said:

Must take care when wading deep water in future tho !

Click to expand...

Any motorcyclist following you had better take care too.

The oil trap is there to ..... well, trap oil and prevent it dripping on the road.

LOL ...

I have a full bike license and have been on the receiving end of the odd bow-wave myself, thank you !

3/4 of a pint of oil dripping on the road over 105k, I can live with.

DON'T remove the star-drive screws on top of the MAF !

The MAF is removed as a complete unit, by disconnecting the rubber tubing on the LHS - and the two bolts fixing it to the air filter housing box, the other. The whol unit then comes out, ready for cleaning with a aerosol solvent, if necessary. I used a tin of brake and clutch cleaner - and it worked just fine.

DON'T take the sensor apart - or, you'll most likely kill it !