Hello, I've had my new Stilo 3dr 1.6 Dynamic for just 10 days, and upon opening the bonnet this morning, I discovered that the coolant reservoir, which on the day I got the car was bright blue and filled to the MAX mark, has dropped in level by a small amount, but more worryingly now has a sand/brown coloured mess sitting at the bottom, with the original blue coolant still sitting above it.
I'll have to contact the local dealer tomorrow about it (they are not the supplying dealer - they are on the other side of the country) but could anyone shed some light on what the problem is? As I said, its only 10 days old and has only done 180 careful miles. I'm terrified it could be something terrible like oil in the coolant, but I don't really know. Any ideas?

Many thanks.

Sorry to reply to my own post, but I've just been out for another look and it seems that the coolant itself isn't too bad (strange how it looks bright blue through the bottle, but when you take the cap off and look in it looks almost clear) but the whole bottom half of the bottle is stained this light brown colour, to the point that at the bottom third the brown is so thick that you can't see any blue colour through it, and where the coolant has dropped from the max mark, there is a 'tide mark' of brown where the coolant was. I'm still terrified that there may be oil or something getting in and that may mean big problems. If it was a major problem like the head gasket, at what point can you reject a car? I can't take it back to the original dealer, and I've heard somewhere, don't know how true, that once you let a garage look at the problem (as I'll have to to find out what it is) you have in effect accepted a repair so you forfeit your rights to reject it.
Any ideas?

Thanks.

2003 1.6 Dynamic 3 Door - Tiziano Red

Well Idge, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but you've got exactly the same symptoms as I had recently. The cause ? Head gasket failure....

I noticed similar symptoms to you back at the end of April on my 3dr Abarth and drew this to the attention of Co-Op Fiat Derby. They cleaned it all out, refilled with anti-freeze and pronounced 'no fault found' - I did query this and suggested that this had all the hallmarks of a head gasket failure and they suggested that I keep an eye on it and see how it went.

Well, this I did and it did come back. In the meantime, I drove approximately 2000 miles including a trip to Le Mans and several 100MPH blasts. I became aware of a low-speed misfire on a cold engine and drew this to their attention when I took my car in for a service 3 weeks ago.

The service manager came out to see me 1/2 hour later and told me that I had been right all along - it *was* a head gasket failure and would need examination.

They took the head off, sent it away for testing and it came back fine. As *something* had caused this, they then wanted to remove the engine, dismantle it entirely and then send the block away for pressure testing.

No way, said I - apart from taking too much time, I was not prepared to accept this on a 9 month old, 12,000 mile car. The only 'cure' that I would accept was a new engine and a new cooling system. This Fiat agreed to and thus began the long process called "Get an engine from Italy"....

So, here I am, 2 weeks later driving an Astra hire car which they've paid for, awaiting said engine from Italy. Theoretically it should arrive this coming Tuesday but I ain't holding my breath. The dealer and Fiat are ABSOLUTELY F*&KING USELESS when it comes to any concept of 'customer service'. A crying shame that the car is a good product, just totally let down by Fiat.

In your case, as your car is only 10 days old, I would personally reject the car - you have a perfectly valid right to do so in such circumstances once it has been confirmed that it is the head gasket. Failure at 180 miles is bloody stupid.

Take the cap off the radiator expansion tank and do two things:-

1) Look at the inside of the cap - do you see anything resembling 'mayonnaise' on it, i.e. a whitish goo ? That's what you get when you mix antifreeze and oil.

2) Roll up a paper towel and dip it into the expansion tank - what does it look like when withdrawn ? It should be nothing more than anti-freeze coloured and soggy. If it's got any trace of oil on it, it's definitely a head gasket failure - you can also tell by smelling it, to see if there's any oil smell as opposed to just anti-freeze.

Sorry I can't bring you good news, but I'd get this sorted pronto.


--
Neil Barker

Hello Neil, thanks for the reply.

Just been out to look at what you said. No evidence of mayonnaise in the cap. I dipped a white paper towel right in, and when it came out it was blue, and I couldn't smell any oil. However, the towel scratched the bottom of the tank and when I brought it out, the residue on the end of it looked like wet sand. The coolant level has definitely gone down. It was just on max last week and is on about 75% now. What to do?
I'm half tempted to ring the AA tomorrow and see what they say. I don't fancy taking it to a dealer for them to just top it up like happened to you, and then I imagine as time goes on while I wait for it to happen again, my chances of refusing the car would disappear. If it is the head gasket, what do you think my odds of a replacement would be? The supplying dealer is over the other side of the country, I waited 10 weeks while the thing was built, and I love the car.

[V]

Thanks.


2003 1.6 Dynamic 3 Door - Tiziano Red

Well, I must confess to being a tad baffled by the 'wet sand' analogy. I can't think where sand-type material is coming from, unless someone originally filled the cooling system up with seriously contaminated water, but that's got to be unlikely....

As to the fact that you're losing coolant, that's either indicative of a genuine leak somewhere in the cooling system (which still isn't good), or that you're losing it as steam due to a blown head gasket. With your other symptoms, I've got to favour that diagnosis, I'm afraid.

If you are in a motoring organisation, such as the AA or RAC, I really would suggest at least talking to their helpline on such matters and if need be paying to have the car indepedantly examined - yes it might cost you 100 quid, but it'll be worth it in the long term if this goes all the way, as it might.

If it is the head gasket, on a car of its early age and mileage, I'd reject the car on the basis of "Not fit for the purpose" - contacting trading standards would also be a good idea for their advice on such matters. Personally, I would be extremely reluctant to accept anything less than a replacement car at this stage in your car's life. In my circumstances, it would be difficult to prove a case for a new car as such, hence my acceptance of a new engine to solve the problem.

It's a bugger when you've waited 10 weeks and the dealer will probably play on this angle too, to try to get you to accept a repair. Don't. I'd suggest that you also have a right to replacement transport being provided for you until they can replace your car like for like.

You really need advice from either the AA/RAC or a specialised motoring/consumer law solicitor.

I wish you luck in getting what you want.

--
Neil Barker

Companies like the AA, RAC or insurance quite often have legal helplines. I have used the one attached to my home insurance a couple of times. They usually take a brief description of the problem, then your phone number. A solicitor will then call you back with legal advice. Look into it.

I have a feeling they may just tell you to take the matter up with the dealer, but explain your reluctance to do this as Fiat dealerships have a bad record.

It does sound like you have a leek somewhere with oil, water and air mixing. My 1979 Land Rover has a similar coloured expansion tank - but it is over 20 years old, has had leaks galore, new radiators, etc. Similar symptoms on a 10 day old car are just beyond belief.

I think the suggestion of an independant assessment is a good one.

_________________________
2003 Stilo 1.6 Dynamic 3dr, Orion Grey, 17" Alloys, Dual Zone Climate Control, Aluminum Sills, Clarion DXZ928R, Kenwood DualMags, Clarion SRX1784, almost de-badged (just grille to go).
I accept no responsibility for anything contained in my posts, or any decisions you make based on them.[^]

Many thanks for the replies.
Last night I decided to call the AA out to have a look, as I wanted a third-party to acknowledge that there is a problem. Mr AA man was very nice, and didn't seem to mind at all that I hadn't actually broke down. He went to his van to fetch a large screwdriver, which he put into the tank and scraped from the inner wall. The coolant itself seems OK, but the level has definitely dropped, and this stuff seems to have collected on the wall of the tank, and dosen't seem to be actually floating around. He scraped a sample of it and wiped it on a paper towel, and it didn't seem to have the consistency of oil at all, maybe a good thing, but more of a type of sandy silt, with quite a deep bronze colour that dried up on the towel. He checked the oil cap, which was clean, dipped his finger in the coolant, which didn't have any smell of oil, and decided that although he doesn't really suspect an oil problem, he doesn't like the look of it, so I should get it down to a dealer as soon as I can. I asked if I could have a written dated statement that he had seen a problem this early, so he filled out a breakdown report sheet, ticked the 'cooling fault' category, and added 'sandy substance in coolant bottle', dated it, and added my mileage.
Rung round the dealers in the area this morning, and the earliest any would offer was this Friday to look at it, so its booked in. I also called the supplying company and asked them to make a record that I had called them today to tell them of the problems I'm having so early on, which they said they would.
Can't really do more until Friday, will try and not use the car. My biggest worry is that the dealer will simply clean and fill the bottle and send me off, instead of diagnosing a problem which I could act on. But I'll just have to wait and see.

Many thanks again - if anyone has any ideas what the hell it could be please don't hesitate to tell me.

PS Is it possible to post a small picture up so you can see what I mean?


2003 1.6 Dynamic 3 Door - Tiziano Red

You need to resize the picture so it doesn't hurt those people on dial-up connections (too much ), then host it somewhere. Most Internet Service Providers (ISPs) give their customers free webspace and maybe even tutorials on how to use it.

Then you can post a link with

[i]link here[/i][\img]

NB Replace \ with /

Which will show the image.

_________________________
[size=1][b]2003 Stilo 1.6 Dynamic 3dr, Orion Grey, 17" Alloys, Dual Zone Climate Control, Aluminum Sills, [url="http://www.eisa-awards.org/awards/2002-2003/mobile.htm"]Clarion DXZ928R[/url], [url="http://www.justkenwood.co.uk/speakers01/kfcpsr71p.asp"]Kenwood DualMags[/url], [url="http://www.clarionworld.co.uk/speakers/speakers.asp"]Clarion SRX1784[/url], [i]almost[/i] de-badged (just grille to go).
I accept no responsibility for anything contained in my posts, or any decisions you make based on them.[^][/b][/size]

Many thanks for all the help. The car went in last week and was tested, no leaks found and no head gasket problems noted. To my amazement, because they couldn't see a problem, they refused to flush and clean the coolant system, saying 'it appears normal' (even though they said they hadn't seen it before!) and they sent me on my way. I wrote to Fiat with a few pictures to ask them what they thought it was, and if, as the dealer says, there is no problem, then why isn't it in every Stilo. I got a very nice letter back just 2 days later, explaining that the product engineering department thought it was a 'casting' from the engine block that had not been fully flushed, and that it should have no adverse affects. However, they agreed with me that the coolant should have been flushed and refilled, so I am to take the letter back to a Fiat dealer, where it will all be done under warranty. Needless to say I'm not planning on going back to the same dealer.
So, hopefully nothing too bad.

PS Over the last couple of days, my car has also started 'kangarooing' down the road for a few seconds when started from cold! *shakes fist* Boo ! [!]

Thanks again

2003 1.6 Dynamic 3 Door - Tiziano Red