Hi all,

<Apologies - rant mode here!>

So who found the brochures for the Stilo clear and simple to understand?

I have recently received a Stilo _thinking_ I knew the spec only to receive one that doesn't match at all! (5dr 1.8 Dynamic)

For example, the main brochure relevant at the time (March 2003) stated that the car comes with 'air conditioning' and a voice activated GSM phone. The Feb 2003 price guide states the model comes with Dual Zone Climate Control.

My car came with neither. Fiat UK told me it should have - my dealership told me it shouldn't as far as they were aware (but are chasing this up further with Fiat UK).

In my opinion the brochures are not suitable for sales material - even so far as to show a picture of Connect Nav with a small colour screen!!! (No mention is made of the fact it is actually an amber dot matrix screen!)

I would be really interested to hear if anyone else has had similar 'miss-selling' experiences and how they were resolved.

<end of rant!>

KP.

Hi kevin,

In Italy in February/March 2003 Fiat changed standard equipments for Actual/Active/Dynamic versions:

i.e. ESP, ASR/MSR become optionals for Dynamic... and some little things was taken out from the Stilo: lights under the doors, drawer under the seat, 12V socket in the boot etc...

but people that ordered the car in december02/jenuary03 didn't know this...
The brochure reported old equipments...

There was a lot persons angry for this...

I don't know if also UK versions are changed and if this is your problem...

but...

if when you ordered the car the dealer showed you a brochure with certain equipments, you have the right to have them!

In Italy a Stilo owner ordered a Stilo MultiWagon with ASR/MSR standard when in December he did the order, but the car that he received didn't has them... so he has hammered Fiat customer care with E-mail and telephone calls...

and after a month, when he has lost his hope, he received a call of apologies from Fiat and an additional year of warranty in compensation...

My advice:

If in your Stilo there aren't equipments that were standard in other stilos (and in the brochure) when you did the order, insist with Fiat directly, contact the customer care, send them a e-mail every day...

ciao...

In bocca al lupo!

Roberto

---------------------------
Fiat Brava 1.4 12v sx

If the goods are not as advertised, I believe you are entitled to a full refund. Your Citizen's Advice Bureau will have better info.

Pete.
Cinq sporting 1242cc
http://mysite.freeserve.com/close_to_cracking_up/
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cinqs_and_Seis/
http://www.clubcento.co.uk/

This has happened to me.

To cut a long story short, they took so long to order and make the car that when I finally got it, it was the 'new' spec and not the spec I ordered.

It had a CD player instead of a tape deck (not too bad I suppose); it had a rear spoiler (again, not too bad); but it didn't have puddle lights; it didn't have a ski tunnel or arm rest; it didn't come with wheel radio controls (which I ordered); it doesn't have traction control.

I have written to the dealer and Fiat UK and I got a reply off Fiat UK saying they have opened a 'case file'. Pfft! Really? [!]

I think I should chase this up a little more. I think I deserve compensation. Anyone got an email address for Fiat?

I'm really worried to hear about all these nice little features not appearing on new cars with mine due to be delivered any time in the next two weeks. For me, it is these kind of features which make it worth having the car and I am going to be very angry if mine doesn't come with them. At the time I ordered the revised "Spec brochure" wasn't in the dealerships (although it says February 2003 on the front) so to the best of my knowledge I should be getting a car with puddle lights and a ski tunnel etc. What is the legal position if it doesn't come with them? I checked on the back of the brochure and it does say Fiat have the right to change specifications without notice but does that let them off?

Maybe I should write in to What Car magazine's legal section and see what they say. I'm sure other Stilo owners out there who read it would like to know too!

Steve

Fiar Stilo Abarth 3dr. Loden Green, Beige Leather, Sky Window, Cold Climate Pack, 17" Alloys, CD Changer. Anticipated Delivery Mid June.

If the cars not what you ordered don't take it!
Imagine the dealers face when he realises he's stuck with a car, Then you offer him £750 less to take the car off his hands

"The Not so Fast but Furious"
Who cares about my post count - it's all about quality not quantity!!
(at least thats what i tell myself anyway)

Have sent a letter to the guy at RAC Legal Services to see what he says. He has a column in What Car so will be interesting to see if anything comes of it. Will post any reply I get.

Fiar Stilo Abarth 3dr. Loden Green, Beige Leather, Sky Window, Cold Climate Pack, 17" Alloys, CD Changer. Anticipated Delivery Mid June.

It all boils down to when they actually ordered your car. Our dealership didn't actually place our order for over 3 weeks after we paid our deposit! This resulted in our getting the ‘newer’ spec.

You need to check the current (I think March 2003) spec. with the old (pre-March) brochure. If it's different and if your car was ordered after/near the beginning of March, then I think there is a very good chance you won't be getting what you want. Sorry. [V]

We complained at the time and all they did is deduct the price of the leather steering wheel inc. radio controls (an optional extra we ordered), as the current spec. comes with a leather steering wheel as standard. When I asked about the controls we were missing out on, they weren't interested in offering any further discount. I asked if they would fit the correct steering wheel, but they said it was factory fit only and therefore had to be done in Spain, i.e. no. Bastards. [!]

We had been waiting for nearly 13 weeks for the car (after being told we would have it in 8 to 10), so didn't take it any further at the time. We soooo wanted it.

We didn't realise we had missed out on the ski tunnel, arm rest and puddle lights until we had a leisurely look around the car when we got home. Then a week or so later I got to thinking, ‘What else is missing?’ So I took the car out to a quite lane and floored the accelerator - wheel spin galore = no ASR (traction control)! It was at this point I wrote my letter to the dealership and Fiat HQ. (I need to chase this up.)

So my advice is check the brochures. Then when you get to the dealership, completely ignore the salesman and have a good look around the vehicle, don’t let him or your new car distract you. Your eyes will glaze over, you will be excited and dieing to drive it away, but be cool and objective. If it isn't what you want and you can stomach the hassle and delay, reject the car. [:0]


2003 Stilo 1.6 Dynamic

Thanks for the advice . What complicates matters is that while I know the spec was being revised when I ordered the car only the revised brochure for the 5 door was in the dealership and not the 3 door one. This means I had no way of checking what had changed in the revision and the dealer didn't mention anything other than the roof airbags becoming an option rather than standard. It's confusing because the revised brochure says February 2003 but wasn't in the dealer in late April when I ordered the car.

I fully intend to inspect the car before I hand over any money but I have that sinking feeling already that these things are going to be missing. Are we certain it is just the ski tunnel, armrest and puddle lights that have been taken away? I think I saw somewhere that the under seat storage drawers in the front are now missing too. The thing is what value do we put on items like this? I really liked the rear armrest, thought it made it quite luxurious and the built in rear cup holder was a very nice touch. I'm not sure what sort of compensation I would accept in place of them, I think something material would be better than a free service but then again an extra years warranty might be a good idea given some of the stories in this forum! [:0]

I have also noticed that ESP, ASR and MSR aren't standard on any Stilo now according to the revised spec brochure but the price list still says it is! I'm certainly not accepting the car if those are missing although I'm not sure exactly how easy it will be to tell if they are there or not, well for the the MSR and ESP anyway [V]

Another issue is my Punto Sporting is due its first MOT in August so I need to weigh up the cost of rejecting this car and trying to order another. That would mean losing the £500 deposit I paid (I'm assuming I won't get that back if I reject the car), paying for the MOT and any things that need to be fixed and also waiting another of Fiat's version of "8 weeks" (kind of like builders!).

I guess I will just have to wait and see what happens when the car arrives. Sadly I'm not looking forward to the day as much as I was before reading some of these posts

Steve

Fiar Stilo Abarth 3dr. Loden Green, Beige Leather, Sky Window, Cold Climate Pack, 17" Alloys, CD Changer. Anticipated Delivery Mid June.

Hi Boywonder

There is underseat storage for the driver, but nowhere else; the ski-tunnel would have been handy, now you have to put half the seat down instead. I agree with your comments about the rear arm rest. Traction control (ASR) was important in our decision in choosing this car. In this new model it doesnt come as standard. Also there's no 12v socket in the boot.

It's obvious if there's no ASR because there will be no switch to turn it off. Look near the "City" button by front cupholders.

On the back of the Order Form, it has the terms and conditions. Somewhere on there it says that if the specification of the car changes between your order date and delivery date, the dealer must contact you to inform you of the changes. The dealer will then ask if you still want to continue with the purchase of the different spec car. If you dont want to, you have the right to cancel order and get your deposit back, as you are being offered a car you haven't ordered. (They have breached their contract on the order.)

The worst thing about this is the lack of communication from Fiat. If I hadn't asked for an up to date brochure, via the internet, we wouldn't be any the wiser over the changes to our car. As it was we were stuck in the showroom on the day we picked up the car, looking at blank faces of sales staff, as if the spec changes were all news to them. It was us that worked out how much money they owed us, (the price of the car had come down aswell, something they conveniantly forgot to tell us!) and WE had to go over the car and see what was new, the sales staff just followed us, saying "ohh yes, thats changed, or thats different"! they had absolutly no idea!

Hope this helps

Mojo (Lead's girlfriend)

PS, that car he's boasting about is really mine, I just let him borrow it

Cheers Mojo, I am going to go and examine the order form carefully. I notice my dealer is also trying to get away with only giving my 6 months road tax instead of the 12 months that the price list says is included! Cheeky buggers [:0]

I really don't know what to expect from the car when it comes as the information sources from Fiat are so conflicting. Their updated website says the Stilo still has the puddle lights and the 12V socket but the revised brochure doesn't mention them! Sadly neither mention the rear arm rest anymore but a dealer I visited recently said they had just received an 03 Abarth and it did have one!

Steve

Fiar Stilo Abarth 3dr. Loden Green, Beige Leather, Sky Window, Cold Climate Pack, 17" Alloys, CD Changer. Anticipated Delivery Mid June.

March 2003 Brochure:

• The rear arm rest is listed as standard equipment on the 5dr Dynamic and hence Abarth.
  
  It is not listed for the 3dr version.
  
• The 12V socket in the luggage compartment is listed as standard spec in the 3dr & 5dr Active and hence subsequent models. So where is mine then? [!]
  
• I can't find puddle lights listed anywhere
  

Unless you have negotiated vehicle tax as part of the sale, it is something you have to pay for. So if they are trying to charge you for 12 months road tax and only give you 6, then I would be very angry and tell them you are informing trading standards.

If I was doing it again, I wouldn't, but if I were, I wouldn't take any notice of the brochures and I would ask the dealer to write out what spec I was going to receive and both sign it. If it deviated from that list, I would reject the car. It doesn't matter what terms & conditions they impose on the sale, they cannot break the Sale of Goods Act, it is the law. If goods are not as described, you can reject them for a full refund. It might take a bit of a battle and they are counting on this putting people off, but it you have the patience...

We didn't and I wish we did, but we have had the car for over a month now, so I think that would be classed as acceptance of the vehicle :I

2003 Stilo 1.6 Dynamic, Orion Grey, 17" Alloys, Dual Zone Climate Control, Aluminum Sills, Clarion ICE, almost de-badged

PS If the car is over 21 days late (ours was nearly) you can cancel the order. This could be used as an arguement for a few extras, if you intend on waiting

2003 Stilo 1.6 Dynamic, Orion Grey, 17" Alloys, Dual Zone Climate Control, Aluminum Sills, Clarion ICE, almost de-badged

Lead, I shouldn't matter that you've had the car just over a month.
I had mine for that time. I then asked Sterling Motors (my dealer) to give me a courtesy car and to keep my car until it's problems were resolved as I did not want to have been seen as having accepted the car as fit for purpose.

That was around 4 weeks ago. I've now done more miles in the courtesy car than my new one. They told me after 1 week that the car was ready - only it wasn't! Despite them agreeing to keep me regularly informed in 3 weeks I haven't heard a thing from Sterling -and I'm so angry I've given chasing up my own car!!!

****

Update on the Dual Zone Climate Control on Stilo Dynamic 1.8 5 door.

Loads of conflicting information...

Source/Date
Fiat UK/Always been standard
(I phoned to ask)
Fiat UK/Standard since Dec 2002
(I emailed to ask)
Fiat Price Guide (Feb 2003 issue)/Standard
Sterling (via Fiat)/Standard since Mar 2003
Fiat Price Guide (Mar 2003 issue)/Standard

So people are either lying, Fiat are confused, or no-one knows.
Quite how I was meant to make a legal and informed decision on my car purchase I really don't know!?!?

Consumer programmes here I come....I'll let the topic know how I got on.

Kev.

They don't make the car I ordered anymore, that's the problem.

When we picked it up, I asked them to fit a steering wheel with radio controlls (as ordered) but they say it can't be done at the dealer. It's a factory fit, i.e. Italy job.

I think it's safe to assume they can't fit a rear arm rest or ski tunnel.

Ditto the puddle lights.

Ditto ASR.

I have just dropped my car off to have a squeek looked at. While I was there I picked up a May 2003 price list. The specs have changed again![:0]

They only mention ESP as standard spec on the Abarth models now, not itemising ASR; however, in the options section they list ESP (inc. ASR & MSR) @ £395inc VAT.

Not that I want to make excuses for Fiat Dealership staff (I still think they're all tossers), but if Fiat keep changing the spec all the time, is it any wonder the staff can't keep up!

PS From May 2003 price list:

Dual ZOne Climate Control with AQS is standard spec on 5dr Dynamic.

If you have any joy getting the missing items fitted, or indeed or new car lol, then I will interested to know. It will make any case I bring easier.

_________________________
2003 Stilo 1.6 Dynamic, Orion Grey, 17" Alloys, Dual Zone Climate Control, Aluminum Sills, Clarion ICE, almost de-badged

I ordered a 1.9jtd Dynamic in April and I went from the March 2003 price list/Brochure when ordering this car. Can someone tell me if I will get what I have ordered or has brochure changed since then? What is the latest brochure? The March 2003 Brochure says that it come with the ski tunnel, arm rest and 12V socket in the luggage compartment, should I be expecting these to be missed off?

Stilo 5dr Dynamic

If you ordered the 5dr version, then the May 2003 brochure says you will get the rear arm rest & ski tunnel. If you ordered the 3dr, you won't.

All versions are supposed to have the 12v socket in the luggage compartment. But I can't find mine.[!]

_________________________
2003 Stilo 1.6 Dynamic, Orion Grey, 17" Alloys, Dual Zone Climate Control, Aluminum Sills, Clarion ICE, almost de-badged

I know that in Italy new Stilos don't mount 12V socket and puddle lights... neither in full optionals Abarth versions... for me in the UK it's the same... and if you want them you must buy a second hand old Stilo...

beside (in Italy) ASR-MSR now are included with ESP in the safety pack optional for all versions and standard only for 1,8 dynamic and 2,4 Abarth...

Roberto

---------------------------
Fiat Brava 1.4 12v sx

Here's the reply I got this morning from Fiat UK regarding my complaint about low levels of service and supplying the incorrect car.



I'm no lawyer, but I can't believe any of their terms & conditions can overide the Sale of Goods Act. So I am going to speak to a Solicitor and see if the SoGA has been broken.

But it just goes to show, do not use any literature that Fiat supply to aid you in the purchase of a vehicle. Especially since Fiat seem to be changing the spec of their cars every 5 minutes. I think the press needs to be informed. [}]

Watch this space!

_________________________
2003 Stilo 1.6 Dynamic 3dr, Orion Grey, 17" Alloys, Dual Zone Climate Control, Aluminum Sills, Clarion ICE, almost de-badged

I totally agree.

I have a copy of the February 2003 issue of the "Car & Option Price List". Nowhere in this document does it state that the cars specifications are subject to change.

OK, I can accept that in a brouchure specs might change - but the Fiat really should ensure the dealers are kept abreast of these changes.

However, us citizens purchase cars based on the final specification at the time of ordering based on what we read in the price list. As far as I'm concerned by purchasing a new car that was built at the time the relevant price list applied one should expect that to be the specification that is expected to be delivered.

I also found out today that the Connect Nav CD player is designed to forget its current position when the car is turned off. If that is the case I really don't want the car. Had I known the CD player would do this I honestly would not have bought the car. There was no way for me to ever check this functionality out as the dealer had no Connect Nav demonstrator and by their own admission knew nothing about how Connect Nav operated.

I am very disheartened by the whole thing and so really wish I'd not gone for a Fiat. Suffice to say none of my mates, family, etc will ever be buying a Fiat in the near future after my experiences.

Sad really - Stilo had so much potential..