chesh said:

I would also check the temp with a laser gun if you suspect the gauge.
I live in a hot place (around 30-40c in this time of year), fan kicks in exactly when half of the gauge. and when driving outside it can be a little bit below that but no quarter.

I use genuine and old stock parts, thermostat should be 87-92 and also the temp sensor on the radiator.

But, that doesn't seem related to your problem.
I would also check the fuel filter and to see that there is no blockage in that system (fuel pressure test).
There is also fuel regulator on the manifold, check it's vacuum pipe that is attached from it to the manifold.
Is the engine working ok on idle? if it is, try to remove each HT lead, might be also be a faulty coil unit or HT leads were connected the wrong way.

If the injector light still stays on, there is no really a way to check it but to replace parts or to visit a fiat garage that still owe the tools to connect the OBD port.

Click to expand...

חג שמח ושנה טובה!

Thanks fot the new tips and suggestions - I will do them all and inform - didn't have much time last couple of days.

Fuel filter: I am a bit confused with this car: the only fuel filter I found (and replaced with a new one) is located on the right-hand side of the car, in the rear, above the rear wheel (under the fuel-entrance pipe to the tank, I guess). Is this the only filter, or am I missing here one?

Idle: I noticed it is working fine when I don't give gas - steady and quiet around 800 rpm - but the rev problem is happening also when standing: the engine is not reving up and "choking" and almost dying when trying to give gas and rev-up. so, when standing without giving gas is fine, but not when pressing gas.

chkto1000 said:

חג שמח ושנה טובה!


Fuel filter: I am a bit confused with this car: the only fuel filter I found (and replaced with a new one) is located on the right-hand side of the car, in the rear, above the rear wheel (under the fuel-entrance pipe to the tank, I guess). Is this the only filter, or am I missing here one?

Click to expand...

Yes that is where the filter is located.
It does sound like a fuel/sensor symptom other than mechanical.
I would check for spark plugs first, fuel pressure test, and Idle+Throttle Position sensor.
Good luck and keep us updated!

chesh said:

Yes that is where the filter is located.
It does sound like a fuel/sensor symptom other than mechanical.
I would check for spark plugs first, fuel pressure test, and Idle+Throttle Position sensor.
Good luck and keep us updated!

Click to expand...

OK, didn't have time in the last couple of days - hopefully will work on the weekend and update.

Can you direct me to which sensors are the idle and throttle position sensor (I assume these are different sensors?) ?

Thanks!

Yes
Circulated in red (idle is in front of you, back one is the tps

chesh said:

Yes
Circulated in red (idle is in front of you, back one is the tps

Click to expand...

OK - that's what I was thinking. Will check and inform.

chesh said:

Yes that is where the filter is located.
It does sound like a fuel/sensor symptom other than mechanical.
I would check for spark plugs first, fuel pressure test, and Idle+Throttle Position sensor.
Good luck and keep us updated!

Click to expand...

UPDATE:

Hi all,

Sorry for not updating earlier - I did not have time to touch the car till 2 days ago.

I did like you said and took the spark plugs out. the Gap was around 1mm, so I made sure it is now 0.9mm (does this difference have any effect at all?). Will upload the phoots of the plugs later, if needed.

But, I think I managed to find the cause of my problem, and it is simpler than I thought (I truley hope I am right): Throttle body cleaning.

2 days ago, I decided to give it a try. Had only Carb cleaner at hand, so tried cleaning very carefully and not much (TB not dismantled). After that took it to a ride - around 30km - and it was much much better and smooth, but not completely - could drive normally at 100kmh, but it was still "jerking and sensitive" - nothing extreme, but still...

just now cleaned it with TB cleaner, and did just a 2 km ride - seems to drive much better, but will have to do a longer drive - hopfully later today. Will update again later.

I hope I got it.

I have a question: I wish to take the TB out and clean it thorughly, if possible. Could you guide me as to how to dismantle it (it looks very big and long in this car, so I'm very hesitating here: I can not understand where it is connected...)?

Thanx!!! :idea:

Is the engine light still on when you drive?
what kind of spark plugs did you use? NGK? Fiat ones? what model?
I believe that caused problems.

Throttle body is unlike the 1.2 models, it is 1 piece which would be hard to clean.
You cannot clean the inside of it unless you soak it in carb cleaner for a couple of days.
If you still want to take it aparts, it's held by 5 13mm nuts to the exhaust manifold.
Access is hard, you will thin hands, a long handle with 13mm socket.

I would just spray the carb cleaner inside it + remove the idle sensor and spray the carb cleaner on the tip when it is removed.


Like I said before, it can be just a bad idle sensor which cause all this problem.

Another thing you can clean with carb spray, is the air sensor. it is located on the air filter body. I've attached picture (circulated in blue).

chesh said:

Is the engine light still on when you drive?
what kind of spark plugs did you use? NGK? Fiat ones? what model?
I believe that caused problems.

Throttle body is unlike the 1.2 models, it is 1 piece which would be hard to clean.
You cannot clean the inside of it unless you soak it in carb cleaner for a couple of days.
If you still want to take it aparts, it's held by 5 13mm nuts to the exhaust manifold.
Access is hard, you will thin hands, a long handle with 13mm socket.

I would just spray the carb cleaner inside it + remove the idle sensor and spray the carb cleaner on the tip when it is removed.

Like I said before, it can be just a bad idle sensor which cause all this problem.

Another thing you can clean with carb spray, is the air sensor. it is located on the air filter body. I've attached picture (circulated in blue).

Click to expand...

OK, after about 30km ride (and several short drives): it is driving better, but still problems - but at least it drives... The problem is that after it reaches working temperature it loses power and the reaction to the gas pedal is bad (it happens after about 15km ride) - you have to press the gas very light in order to drive - but I can reach almost 100kmh, so it is better...

The engine light is not on, as long as I drive it normally (light). if I will press hard and "flood" it, it will light up for about 30 seconds and turn off - but that's it: in general does not light up.

The spark plugs are NGk - I will check the model and inform.

As you say, I will not take the TB apart, but will try spraying it again - I guess it a useless work.

I will spray the idle sensor and the air intake sensor, as you suggest.

I'm starting to think that perhaps we are dealing here with a faulty ignition coil, so I ordered one and will receive it tomorrow. I will update after I install it and test it.

Will update again.

chesh said:

Is the engine light still on when you drive?
what kind of spark plugs did you use? NGK? Fiat ones? what model?
I believe that caused problems.

Throttle body is unlike the 1.2 models, it is 1 piece which would be hard to clean.
You cannot clean the inside of it unless you soak it in carb cleaner for a couple of days.
If you still want to take it aparts, it's held by 5 13mm nuts to the exhaust manifold.
Access is hard, you will thin hands, a long handle with 13mm socket.

I would just spray the carb cleaner inside it + remove the idle sensor and spray the carb cleaner on the tip when it is removed.

Like I said before, it can be just a bad idle sensor which cause all this problem.

Another thing you can clean with carb spray, is the air sensor. it is located on the air filter body. I've attached picture (circulated in blue).

Click to expand...

OK, update: the ignition coil is not the probelm - I changed it to a new one, but the behavior is the same. Returning to the original coil.


I cleaned the 2 sensors with carb cleaner, as advised. I have a question regarding the idle sensor: if I depress it hard, with my hands, should it move: "go down", or not? I ask, because when tried pressing it, after cleaning, it will not move.

If I buy a new one, would the one of Opel 1.6 be good here, or from the Punto 1.2? As I see it, there are many parts in this car that are Opel or GM. For example
these articles:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/LEERLAUFREG...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Leerlaufreg...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.de/p/ERA-Leerlaufr...ung-556045/1768296442?iid=162854290712&chn=ps

These parts look exactly the same as the one in my car.

Thanks!

chkto1000 said:

The engine light is not on, as long as I drive it normally (light). if I will press hard and "flood" it, it will light up for about 30 seconds and turn off - but that's it: in general does not light up.

Click to expand...

You will have to connect to the ECU in order to read the problem.
It sure does have a problem with some sensor or it's wiring, but trying to change every sensor would be a bit annoying (if you have all spare).

From what you say, the idle sensor doesn't seem the problem here.
Bad idle sensor would cause the car not to idle correctly.
Try to disconnect it's wire from the sensor first, and check if there's any different.
If you want to replace it, it's part number is: 7778983
you will need to see what are the replacements of it. it's different than the 1.2 sensor, and yes, the tip of it shouldn't move that much when you clean it. it's ok.

If you still want to try and clean/replace parts,
I would now focus on the EGR sensor and it's hose. sometimes it can be blocked from carbon.
Take the metal hose first from both intake manifold and the EGR unit, with an adjustable spanner and check if it's blocked.
Try to remove the EGR unit with T10 (2 bolts) and spray the whole unit inside with a carb cleaner).

chesh said:

You will have to connect to the ECU in order to read the problem.
It sure does have a problem with some sensor or it's wiring, but trying to change every sensor would be a bit annoying (if you have all spare).

From what you say, the idle sensor doesn't seem the problem here.
Bad idle sensor would cause the car not to idle correctly.
Try to disconnect it's wire from the sensor first, and check if there's any different.
If you want to replace it, it's part number is: 7778983
you will need to see what are the replacements of it. it's different than the 1.2 sensor, and yes, the tip of it shouldn't move that much when you clean it. it's ok.

If you still want to try and clean/replace parts,
I would now focus on the EGR sensor and it's hose. sometimes it can be blocked from carbon.
Take the metal hose first from both intake manifold and the EGR unit, with an adjustable spanner and check if it's blocked.
Try to remove the EGR unit with T10 (2 bolts) and spray the whole unit inside with a carb cleaner).

Click to expand...

All right, I will do the EGR and update.

I think I will change the spark plugs cables again: I bought before very cheap ones. Perhaps I should get something more expensive? Like Bosch? Do you think there might be a different?

By the way, the spark plugs are NGK BCPR7ES: Are these correct?

chkto1000 said:

All right, I will do the EGR and update.

I think I will change the spark plugs cables again: I bought before very cheap ones. Perhaps I should get something more expensive? Like Bosch? Do you think there might be a different?

Click to expand...

That doesn't matter as long as you have a spark and it's not faulty.
And yes, that model for NGK is the right one for the 1.6 engine.

I had the same problem on my punto_s 55
The last thing i did was changed my catalytic converter, wich appeared to be clogged up, and eventually fell apart from inside. and for now haven't had any issues.