Hi

My car went in to get a new head gasket done. 1.2 8V Fire.

I just went to see the mechanic and he showed me that that the gasket was burnt between cylinders 1-2 and 3-4.

He said this was because of wear on the block at cylinders 1 and 4 and that pressure was escaping, damaging the gasket and had allowed it to go at those points.

He gave me 2 options -

1) just put the head back on with a skim, new gasket and bolts and hope for the best - may last 1 month or 1 year.
2) Or alternatively, get the block skimmed which will cost $$$$.


The head gasket had only been done by the PO a few months ago, but he obviously did not skim the head or use new bolts. Also, it looks like there was not much antifreeze in it because of the amount of corrosion.

I am not too bothered about loss of performance because it is just a run around and I don't take it on motorways - but I don't really want it to break down on me!

What do you think my best option would be and any experience of how long it would be likely to last without skimming the block?

Cheers!

why hg blew first time? how you know he didnt skim it

take first option, dunno about block damage and skimming

do you have pictures of this wear to the block, i can't quite imagine what this could be..

generally speaking what happens when the head gasket goes is engine overheats and this can warp the head as its made of pretty soft metal. The bottom end is usually fine and if anything is wrong with it its damage to cylinder walls from debris getting in the engine somehow or piston rings being damaged.. I just cannot understand how damage to the block would cause a head gasket to go, not something I have ever heard before. Try get some pics and a better explanation from him of what he means. so long as its not got scoring in the cylinders and the face is flat it should be fine.

So my general advice without seeing anything is that the block is mostly likely fine, I would get the head skimmed, get new valve seals fitted at the same time. Put it back together with a good qualty head gasket (genuine fiat, payen or spesso) with new head bolts and properly torqued down. It will most likey be fine.

And as above, you need to workout why it went in the first place, overheating is the usual culprit so give the cooling system a good flush out, replace the thermostat (again, use a genuine or known good quality brand and not just the cheapest you can find).

Worse case scenario you could just replace the bottom end - i don't know what getting its like trying to get engines from cars being broken up in spain but its easy enough here through local scrap yards or ebay to get a bare engine. Any bottom end for a 1.2 8v fiat fire will do, you will just have to swap the engine mounts over if its not from a mk1. I'd do that over getting the block skimmed but i still find it hard to believe the block is whats wrong here.

Good luck, let us know how you get on, and as i said before, try get some pics and post them up.

Thanks for the input!

I went back and the mechanic showed me how the block has warped and is 'sunken' between cylinders 1 and 2 and 3 and 4, explaining why there was exhaust gas in the coolant even though the head gasket was very new.

It will cost me 90 Euros for the skim (plus 8 hours labour to remove / replace the block) so I am just going for that because used engines are fairly pricey here in Spain, and the Engine only has 80K miles on it and the cylinders / pistons look fine. The head gasket will be guaranteed so hopefully that will be the end of my problems.

I think that in the past it was just driven with cooling / HG problems and repeatedly overheated. I am worried if I don't get the block done now and just hope for the best that I will just be back in a few months paying for another new head gasket - I really am at the limit of what it is worth paying to get this car sorted!

got any pic?
did you maybe keep driving when temp gauge was in red?

I have not heard before of a block to warp. If that is indeed the case I would not trust that block at all and would go for a replacement engine anyway.

dumbledore said:

I have not heard before of a block to warp. If that is indeed the case I would not trust that block at all and would go for a replacement engine anyway.

Click to expand...

true that

actually my 8v mk2 overheated badly on highway in 2013, only thing it did was crack a piston in half and melt intake manifold, block was still undamaged, they are probably trying to scam him

Oh no - now I really don't know what to do.

Since I have had the car, it overheated once when the water pump went, but I pulled over within a couple of minutes. When I got the car, there was a major coolant leak (core plug) and so I am sure it had been plenty overheated before.

After replacing the water pump there was clearly exhaust / pressure in the coolant.

The head gasket was done at home only about 3 months ago (prob less than 500 miles ago) by the previous owner. He only did the minimum - clearly did not replace the bolts or spark plugs and probably did not skim the head (looks like he just cleaned it up).

So it looks like the head gasket itself is not the problem. The head gasket still looks almost new but there are clear signs of exhaust gas movement (black marks) between the gasket and the block between cylinders 3 and 4 and 1 and 2. I agree that a warped head is the most likely culprit - or using old bolts. However, there is definitely some unevenness on the surface of the block too.

The mechanic wants to skim the block and won't guarantee it unless I do. I don't think they are trying to scam me - they are super busy and are not short of work and they outsource the skimming so are making minimal money from that. They also have openly said I could just get the head skimmed and see how it went - but they couldn't guarantee the work.

The trouble is if there is any chance that it is the block that is the problem, then I have to get it done now while the head is already off, it definitely won't be economical to wait and see if the HG goes again in a few months.

whats the rules on buying/selling crash damaged cars in Spain? most economical repair i can think of is to buy a punto mk2 or mk2b with a 1242 8v with rear end damage thats a runner, then whip the engine out, swap your mk1 engine mounts and head (freshly skimmed of course with new valve seals too) onto the new bottom end. Chuck the old bottom end and mk2 head in the boot of the donor car and send it off for scrap.

That would work and cost next to nothing in UK as you would prob get £75-100 for the scrap car.

how much for whole bare engine with head, sump...?

In Spain, labour is relatively cheap and parts are expensive. So cars stay on the road a lot longer than in the UK. There is a major industry in used parts and I doubt I would get a half decent scrap engine for much less than 500 Euros / £400. So by the time I have paid for labour to check them / swap them over it will cost a few hundred more... I think there may also be some paperwork to do to update the technical certificate if it wasn't a 100% identical engine which would probably cost a bit but would also be a lot of hassle...

500 eur for mk1 engine? i need to come there to sell parts loloo
certificate cuz its not same engine? how will they know which engine is in the car? 20 year old engine, they probably dont even care

They have an annual check like an MOT - and each car has a card with the exact technical specifications. They may not notice a different engine but if they did then the car would be off the road until the paperwork was sorted! I have even got a feeling that they check the block number during the test so an identical engine may still cause problems. It would make it impossible to sell if the paperwork was not updated. You have to get any modification added to the certificate - even a towbar - and it has to be installed by a specially certified mechanic!

trust me, they wont check block numbers, they dont even know where its printed on, covered with 20 year old grease and dirt, unless they are that strict, but highly unlikely

it is very hard to read the engine number for sure, quite often impossible - go look at your existing engine and try read the engine number

blu73 said:

it is very hard to read the engine number for sure, quite often impossible - go look at your existing engine and try read the engine number

Click to expand...

where is it even printed on? mission impossible

its on the flat face that points upward above the water pump

nice, so thats where it was printed on someday

they are hard to read cause they are not obvious even when its new, it looks more lazer etched than engraved or the like - anyhow its so hard to read cause its usually got rust on it and you have to be careful when you clean it up that you don't just sand away the numbers. It really is nigh on impossible alot of the time - I infact need to go do this on my P75 engine thats going in my panda so i can change the engine on the registration document - wish me luck! lol

is it similar to vin number printed near front seats?