yeah there is a relay for it, not sure its location though.. I still reckon it will be corrosion inside the wires myself though no harm testing the rest of the circuit before you lop bits of wire off even though if it were me i would just chop a good length off them then check for voltage when the horn is pushed - then you will know the circuit works and some nice new wires is not gonna do no harm even if its not corroded wires.

blu73 said:

yeah there is a relay for it, not sure its location though.. I still reckon it will be corrosion inside the wires myself though no harm testing the rest of the circuit before you lop bits of wire off even though if it were me i would just chop a good length off them then check for voltage when the horn is pushed - then you will know the circuit works and some nice new wires is not gonna do no harm even if its not corroded wires.

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Thought it was all going too well! Just filled up (adding a sizeable % to the value of the car) & lo & behold after about15 miles a strong smell of petrol. There is a sizeable leak into the rear wheel arch area NOT all the time, so doesn't seem to be a self draining tank. Could be I overfilled & on swinging left into the drive, it has "Sloshed" over. Thought it might be from a fuel line, but after switching off & the dribble had stopped, on restart up, no sign of fuel leaking Watch this space.
The engine is a bit spluttery, but the revs really sing round the dial (if it had one!), It has a tow bar too! and a pop up sunroof! Handles like a go Kart! Steering really responsive (no PAS!)

well it shouldn't be able to slosh out as you put it, even if you filled the filler neck right up it should not slosh out.

Could be a few things really, damaged pipe on the filler neck, the actual tank, pipe loose one the tank (maybe the breather pipe), the tank itself could be corroded.

Just gonna require some methodical searching me thinks.

blu73 said:

well it shouldn't be able to slosh out as you put it, even if you filled the filler neck right up it should not slosh out.

Could be a few things really, damaged pipe on the filler neck, the actual tank, pipe loose one the tank (maybe the breather pipe), the tank itself could be corroded.

Just gonna require some methodical searching me thinks.

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Thanks!! or even a split in the pipe, it does only leak when running, although it didn't appear to when ticking over.....As you say methodical does it...like the horn. And all easy to get at no doubt!
D

Found the leak...loose output pipe at the tank

good stuff, nice easy one thankfully then.

blu73 said:

good stuff, nice easy one thankfully then.

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Yes & no! Turned out to be a (rodent?) damaged pipe which was sorted with modern glues & mastic!. That done & a new set of plugs & it goes really well. Back to basics motoring & none the worse for that, I'll sort the horn next.

hi David , do you want the rear base seat I have ? I could bring it to the forza show on Sunday if you are going .

Steve gt said:

hi David , do you want the rear base seat I have ? I could bring it to the forza show on Sunday if you are going .

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That is a great offer, but I'm away in Germany with the 1956 MG Magnette ZA, then to France in a normal car,(the benefit of retirement!), so unless there is someone there reasonably local who could take it I'll have to decline.
Chesterfield is not so far...can we pick up this conversation in a few weeks? If it has gone by then, too bad!
Kind Regards
David

Punto1cab said:

That is a great offer, but I'm away in Germany with the 1956 MG Magnette ZA, then to France in a normal car,(the benefit of retirement!), so unless there is someone there reasonably local who could take it I'll have to decline.
Chesterfield is not so far...can we pick up this conversation in a few weeks? If it has gone by then, too bad!
Kind Regards
David

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I will be on the drive for a few weeks yet , so we can arrange picking it up then no probs . Sounds like a good trip ... roll on retirement [emoji3]

Steve gt said:

I will be on the drive for a few weeks yet , so we can arrange picking it up then no probs . Sounds like a good trip ... roll on retirement [emoji3]

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Well the dreaded fuel leak came back!
My local garagiste thought he had identified it & "glued" it together. All seemed well...no leak & off I went top Barnsley to look at a ZA Magnette for a friend in Germany (very nice car by the way, he bought it!). While ther I parked on a steep upwards slope & Guess.... a leak from the same place (where a 25mm corrugated pipe loops under by what looks like a vertical vent/drain?? (again about 25mm) I put it down to the parking & set off for Newark to pick up a trailer (nervous about running out of fuel. however the "leak" stopped & I collected the trailer & back home to Stratford on Avon.
I have been running around for the past 3 weeks, with no problem apart from an occasional whiff of petrol.
As I have to go to Felixtowe with the trailer to pick up an Austin Seven (don't ask!) at the end of next week I went & filled up today and....YES... back came the leak.
It seems to drip while going along (a bit, but maybe not all the time....I can't see!) but when I stop it drips about 15mm into a Jam jar in about 10 mins & then stops.
So what is it? As it doesn't seem to be under great pressure (gravity?) is it from the return system before it gets to the tank? I wonder? Could the amount be what is in the system until it drains away? Is the anti- reflux valve leaking, or it just a split pipe somewhere near the tank filling up the corrugated 25mm pipe? (which does WHAT?)
nothing to do with this, but there is a gasket round the top of the Weber single point injection body & it is split....where can I get one?

sounds like you have been busy David , I still have the 60s of you want it no probs , it my have the parts you need although the fuel tank is off the car as I am saving it in case mine rusts out but all the fuel lines are there .

Well here is a diagram from the eper of the fuel tank setup..



I presume the pipe you keep referring to to no.4 - that is the tank breather for when you are filling up, you see it goes across and joins a small pipe on the filler neck. That is to release pressure as you fill up with fuel at the petrol station..

Without seeing it its really hard to say anything at all for certain. But my first thoughts would be, what has been used to repair that pipe, is said product going to last with permanent contact with petrol cause not alot of glues are..

After that I would be checking the seals at the end of that pipe are both still there, easy to lose one of them when the pipe is removed - so check they are still there and are they still looking ok and not all hard and cracked?? These bits are still available new from fiat i believe but a very quick google came up with some cheap on Italian ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/7628223-PAK...K-FIAT-PUNTO-FIORINO-LANCIA-Y10-/360857289680

I'd next look at the little valve (no.18) and its seal (no.20) - Now I have never messed with this and not 100% what its for - relieving pressure when ca is not running perhaps? It doesn't really matter though, due to where it is I can see that leaking if the car was full of fuel and on a slight angle - check the seal for that. Again quick search is bring both these parts up on german and/or italian ebay but i stress I am not looking hard just throwing the part numbers into google. My eper though (2014 version) is saying all 3 bits I have mentioned are still available new.

part numbers:
valve (no. 18) - 46415700
valve seal (no. 20) - 7700824
breather pipe seals (no. 22) - 7628223

All this is a pain I'll grant you as you kinda need to drop the tank to check any of it and then refit and fill up to test it properly. So really the easiest thing to do is to replace anything that you are even remotely suspect about. Sadly the breather pipe itself is not available new but i'm sure its possible to find a suitable hose thats fuel resistant to replace it rather than try fix it - if you have a search around for flexible fuel filler hose you will prob find something suitable i should think - something like this http://www.asap-supplies.com/seaflow-iso7840-fuel-hose-305825. You will of course have to get a actual measurement of the pipe ID first though.

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Steve gt said:

sounds like you have been busy David , I still have the 60s of you want it no probs , it my have the parts you need although the fuel tank is off the car as I am saving it in case mine rusts out but all the fuel lines are there .

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Thanks for that info....I will be back when the fuel leak is sorted.....!
D

Punto1cab said:

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gonna assume that was an accidental post lol

blu73 said:

gonna assume that was an accidental post lol

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It was!
What I was trying to say (& may have somehow!) was thanks very much, you are a star! All I have to do is get at it & fix it! There is a valve- in the return circuit- may be called an "anti-reflux valve" according to Haynes! If you ever suffer from indigestion, you will know what it does! A non-return valve might be more understandable!
the valve 18 is shown on Haynes, but as part of a complex EVAP system with solenoids, tanks & ending up at the vapour trap on the FI body!
I am pretty sure the problem will be with the return pipe somewhere as it seems to dump about the same amount of fuel each time, and as it doesn't seem to happen when running for a distance, that suggests to me that it is not "overfuelling" when running.
Your diagram & leads are very helpful...thanks again
David

Punto1cab said:

It was!
What I was trying to say (& may have somehow!) was thanks very much, you are a star! All I have to do is get at it & fix it! There is a valve- in the return circuit- may be called an "anti-reflux valve" according to Haynes! If you ever suffer from indigestion, you will know what it does! A non-return valve might be more understandable!
the valve 18 is shown on Haynes, but as part of a complex EVAP system with solenoids, tanks & ending up at the vapour trap on the FI body!
I am pretty sure the problem will be with the return pipe somewhere as it seems to dump about the same amount of fuel each time, and as it doesn't seem to happen when running for a distance, that suggests to me that it is not "overfuelling" when running.
Your diagram & leads are very helpful...thanks again
David

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Looking again at your diagram I cannot see the overfuelling return system?
D

yep different diagram, I should have thought of the EVAP when i posted - clearly its all that could be when you think lol.

Here you go:
The lines


Charcoal Canister typ1


Charcoal Canister typ2


Do remember though that this system is designed for vapours, they build up in the canister and then the valve opens under certain conditions to send it through the engine to be burnt, there should be no actual fuel in this system only fuel vapour. So if its leaking fuel here then it can only be the valve itself has failed and letting fuel pass through it or the seal for the valve on the tank. I mean you should be able to take the pipe from the canister to the throttle body off completely and you would still not get any dripping fuel out (or shouldn't) - it will stink of fuel though and is bad for environment which is why it goes to be burnt by engine; it has nothing to do with actual fuelling, its just how the pressure in the tank equalises.

blu73 said:

yep different diagram, I should have thought of the EVAP when i posted - clearly its all that could be when you think lol.

Here you go:
The lines

Charcoal Canister typ1

Charcoal Canister typ2

Do remember though that this system is designed for vapours, they build up in the canister and then the valve opens under certain conditions to send it through the engine to be burnt, there should be no actual fuel in this system only fuel vapour. So if its leaking fuel here then it can only be the valve itself has failed and letting fuel pass through it or the seal for the valve on the tank. I mean you should be able to take the pipe from the canister to the throttle body off completely and you would still not get any dripping fuel out (or shouldn't) - it will stink of fuel though and is bad for environment which is why it goes to be burnt by engine; it has nothing to do with actual fuelling, its just how the pressure in the tank equalises.

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Thanks again! I think I can discount the EVAP (and not disturb it unless there is clear evidence of leaks there!) I will concentrate on the overflow. The breather pipe is where the fuel ends up, but liquids rarely come from where they appear! There is I am sure an overflow pipe from the Injector body, back to the tank via this anti reflux valve & then into the tank, but I cannot see it on the diagrams I think it is the pipe return line on the fuel pump and that must return fuel straight to the tank.
SO that removes the return fuel option as the culprit because the connections at the fuel pump appear perfect.... back to the seals at the top of the tank for the filler & overflow.....!
David