Technical Swap Front End + Engine

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Technical Swap Front End + Engine

George Manont

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Hi,

I plan to swap small engine in MKI 75 Punto for a bigger Tempra engine.

1. Can I use the 75 existing motor mount and location ?
2. Do I need to modify the electrical parts ?
3. I also plan to swap the front end ( Engine + Tranny + Steering ) is it possible ?

There are two candidates, in terms of appearance to choose from, any comments ?

Ciao,

GM.





.
 
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Which engine out of a Tempra (there were at least 3!).

I'd guess the 1.4 and maybe 1.6 used the same mounts as the Punto GT.

The 2 litre lump is almost certainly going to need fabrication (Lampredi 2 litre DOHC, I think, Lancia Beta, etc.)

The factory commissioned a one off Mk1 Punto with a Delta Integrale power train, so it must be possible. But it's not going to be easy!

Can't remember whether the Tempra used EFI. It it did, use that ECU.

It's a huge job, likely to be much slower than a Punto GT.
 
Thanks for replying, messr.finger...

The Tempra engine has a 2 litre engine. I plan to replace the whole front end ; brakes + steering + struts etc.

I will go with rear-wrecked type of Tempra, though !

.
 
Which engine out of a Tempra (there were at least 3!).

I'd guess the 1.4 and maybe 1.6 used the same mounts as the Punto GT.

The 2 litre lump is almost certainly going to need fabrication (Lampredi 2 litre DOHC, I think, Lancia Beta, etc.)

The factory commissioned a one off Mk1 Punto with a Delta Integrale power train, so it must be possible. But it's not going to be easy!

Can't remember whether the Tempra used EFI. It it did, use that ECU.

It's a huge job, likely to be much slower than a Punto GT.



The delta powered mk1 was very heavily modified floor pan and would have had lots of custom parts including subframes



Thanks for replying, messr.finger...

The Tempra engine has a 2 litre engine. I plan to replace the whole front end ; brakes + steering + struts etc.

I will go with rear-wrecked type of Tempra, though !

.


How wide was the tempra, it seems unlikely that it's would have the same track width so a full swap would probably leave the front wheels sticking well out either side of the wheel arches.

Also as fingers pointed out unless you have the 8v turbo tempra all other tempra engines were less powerful than the mk1 punto gt, and even then the mk1 gt engine wouldn't be as heavy and can easily be tuned to be more powerful than that.
 
The Tempra two litre was a diluted soccer Mom mobile engine and for the weight and amount of faffing about you'll get better results tuning your 1242 8V engine.

As for grafting a MkII nose on a MkI shell. It'll be a heck of a job and look pants.

So if you managed to do it the car would be slow, look at best like a cut and shut, handle like Bambi on ice and be impossible to register and insure properly.

The Punto 75 is a great lump. First choice for us Pandaists. Pull the block apart, fit 1242 16V pistons to drop the compression ratio and add boost. Turboing a FIRE engine is a tried and tested conversion. With the exhaust manifold being next to the oil filter making sure the turbo stays wet is easy and in the Punto platform GT intercooler, radiator and other bits makes it more straight forward than a Panda turbo.

That's how I'd go. No change of engine or capacity for the DVLA or VOSA to charge twenty pieces of silver for and could be as quick if not quicker (with a Sporting six speed box) than the GT. :)
 
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T No change of engine or capacity for the DVLA or VOSA to charge twenty pieces of silver for and could be as quick if not quicker (with a Sporting six speed box) than the GT. :)


But not for long! :D

You might get 220bhp from the FIRE 8v, but I'd not expect either it or the gearbox to survive. (Abarth 500 has better gearbox, steel crank, etc.)

Folk have got close to 400 wbhp from the 1.4 GT lump (albeit taken out to 1.6) but I'd expect that box to be very fragile out there.

As they say, you're starting in the wrong place.........
 
although i agree with everything Mr.Knight and Mr.Fingers says i must say that judging by the american flag next to George's name would suggest he don't have to worry about VOSA or the DVLA ;)

I myself would either be looking at either (in no particular order) a GT conversion, Turbo FIRE engine or a twin cam turbo 2.0 lampredi engine (fiat coupe 16vt, lancia delta and others) if i was trying to make a quick mk1 punto.
 
although i agree with everything Mr.Knight and Mr.Fingers says i must say that judging by the american flag next to George's name would suggest he don't have to worry about VOSA or the DVLA ;)

I myself would either be looking at either (in no particular order) a GT conversion, Turbo FIRE engine or a twin cam turbo 2.0 lampredi engine (fiat coupe 16vt, lancia delta and others) if i was trying to make a quick mk1 punto.

Depending on the State the Fun Police can be worse than the UK.
 
yes but generally speaking they seem to be allowed way more stuff than we are - read countless articles on basically full blown race cars and drag cars being 'street-able' cars. Heck look at drag week!!! So many cars that just wouldn't be allowed at all over this side of the pond. Don't get me wrong though, we have alot more freedom in the UK than alot of other Europeans countries!!
 
Hi,

Thanks to all for your inputs + suggestions + recommedations.

The 2.0 litre Tempra is probably NOT a way to go. I may have to stick with what I have for now and do a little head job ie. expand valve size + increase comp.ratio by shave off a little bit of head. ( Love to have those GT engine sets as mentioned but they probably hard to come by )

I hope to have my project fulfilled and completed to the way I visioned in the next couple of months...

Ciao,

GM.

Think big but drive SMALL, save energy !


ps. I'm now residing in Thailand.


.
 
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Hi,

Thanks to all for your inputs + suggestions + recommedations.

The 2.0 litre Tempra is probably NOT a way to go. I may have to stick with what I have for now and do a little head job ie. expand valve size + increase comp.ratio by shave off a little bit of head. ( Love to have those GT engine sets as mentioned but they probably hard to come by )

I hope to have my project fulfilled and completed to the way I visioned in the next couple of months...

Ciao,

GM.

Think big but drive SMALL, save energy !


ps. I'm now residing in Thailand.


.

quite cheap stuff there a?
 
I wasn't thinking chasing horses. The Tempra lump is only good for 130-ish bhp. Getting similar power to weight from the FIRE engine would be a better option. ;)
 
Hi,

I plan to swap small engine in MKI 75 Punto for a bigger Tempra engine.

1. Can I use the 75 existing motor mount and location ?
2. Do I need to modify the electrical parts ?
3. I also plan to swap the front end ( Engine + Tranny + Steering ) is it possible ?

There are two candidates, in terms of appearance to choose from, any comments ?

Ciao,

GM.




I
.







Which engine out of a Tempra (there were at least 3!).

The 2 litre lump is almost certainly going to need fabrication (Lampredi 2 litre DOHC, I think, Lancia Beta, etc.)

The factory commissioned a one off Mk1 Punto with a Delta Integrale power train, so it must be possible. But it's not going to be easy!
.

The maggiore grama 2 had nothing to do with fiat .
it was built as a celebration of the last delta to roll of the production line and wasn't road legal and fiat would not endorse it.
The 2.0 16v doesn't need much fabrication and is the engine swap of choice for any serious mk1 punto owner
You could put the 20vt from a coupe in ;)
 

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Thanks to ALL, again, for valuable inputs.

I started collecting parts already.

1. Wheels - Schmidt-like / turbined-like
2. Steering wheel

See attached...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To Frisco... yeah , cheap but you have to be careful selecting ... as you'd never know how you'd feel the morning after !


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Wheels candidates ( 2 )

Maxlites




SpeedStars




Steering Wheel - Custom Made



Vintage ? ( not likely - as it needs refurbishing )



.
 
Gotta be Schmidts!! Love them wheels!

Not keen on either steering wheel i'm afraid, each to their own though

40k eur, car is made from real gold

worth every penny.. is basically a lancia delta integrale with a punto suit on, bearing that in mind and the price of a decent intergrale and the fact its a complete one off built properly i would say price is about bang on
 
Gotta be Schmidts!! Love them wheels!

Not keen on either steering wheel i'm afraid, each to their own though



worth every penny.. is basically a lancia delta integrale with a punto suit on, bearing that in mind and the price of a decent intergrale and the fact its a complete one off built properly i would say price is about bang on


Integrale 8v

1989 Lancia Delta HF Integrale 8V at the Birmingham Motorshow


The Lancia HF Integrale incorporated some of the features of the Delta HF 4WD into a road car. The engine was a 8-valve 2 L fuel injected 4-cylinder, with balancing shafts. The HF version featured new valves, valve seats and water pump, larger water and oil radiators, more powerful cooling fan and bigger air cleaner. A larger capacity [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrett_AiResearch"]Garrett AiResearch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@<title>Garrett AiResearch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</title>@@AMEPARAM@@Garrett AiResearch[/ame] [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger"]Turbocharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@<title>Turbocharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</title>@@AMEPARAM@@Turbocharger[/ame] with improved air flow and bigger inter-cooler, revised settings for the electronic injection/ignition control unit and a knock sensor, boost power output to 185 bhp (DIN) (136 kW) at 5300 rpm and maximum torque of 31 m·kgf (304 [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_metre"]Newton metre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@<title>Newton metre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</title>@@AMEPARAM@@Newton metre[/ame], 224 lbf·ft) at 3500 rpm.
 
that punto is not an 8v 2wd car.... its a 2.0 twin cam turbo and its 4wd - and just remembered that its not all taken from the delta its from the dedra intergrale, but every always says its a delta punto lol.

It's a puntograle llol and it was the 8v engine that was used in that car not the more powerful 16v
The engine was a spare that was laying around in the back of the warehouse
 
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