Technical 1368 mk.1 Punto ELX85?

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Technical 1368 mk.1 Punto ELX85?

I appreciate that you might want to try an ambitious project, but why doesn't anyone do the obvious fixes on worn engines these dats, i.e. a traditional refurb?

Why hot do a bottom end rebuild with rebore, new pistons, bearings etc? Maybe get the crank lightened and balanced? If the parts and skills are still available somewhere then track 'em down and use 'em!
 
There's plenty plenty of half-life salvage bottom-ends around, still good and built to Fiat factory standard which no rebuild (short of full-race) can match. Top end, yes, rebuild, and my existing head's been recently skimmed, seats recut etc. Got to be cheaper than any rebuild, and might as well make it 1368 while at it.

Re insurance - just got £198 online quote for 'bored out', 'transmission', fully comp, legal, £100xs. Or £209 incl 'chipped +10%' and 'manifolds', £350xs. OK I'm an old fart in a respectable profession, but still £198 is only 70% up on standard, won't break the bank - amazed.
 
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Researching on http://www.automobile-catalog.com, 16v 1386 95PS 94lb.ft candidates seem to be:
Stilo 04-07
Idea 03-12
Grande Punto mk.3 06-08
Punto mk.2-and-a-half Sporting

outsiders:
Bravo mk.2 but only 90PS not 95
Panda 100HP 06-10

and that's it! No Ford Ka's.

I heard somewhere that these later 1368s (apart from the Punto mk.2-and-a-half Sporting) have different mountings, top stays etc and don't drop easily into a Punto?

What's this variator thing on the Panda 100?
 
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More researching on http://www.automobile-catalog.com, 6sp gbox candidates seem to be:

6sp boxes with 4.07 final and 'taller' 5th - 15.91 8.78 6.02 4.56 3.65 3.11
Stilo 01-07, 1.2s as well as 1.4s
Bravo mk.2 1.4s

6sp, same 4.07 final but 'shorter' 5th - 15.91 8.78 6.02 4.56 3.75 3.11
Idea 06-12 1.4s
Panda 100HP 06-10
Grande Punto mk.3 16v 1.4s
Punto mk.2-and-a-half Sporting 1.4

This compares with 5sp Punto boxes:
Punto mk.2 and 2-and-a-half - with 'tall' 3.44 final and the 'taller' 5th - 13.45 7.42 5.09 3.86 3.09
Punto mk.1 - back to the 'short' 4.07 final and same 'taller' 5th - 15.91 8.78 6.02 4.56 3.65

That 'tall' mk.2 box explains a lot about the mk.2's disappointing character, while the 'short' mk.1 box is delightful! All it lacks is a M-way 'overdrive' top, which any of the 6sps will provide. Pity it doesn't bring ratios closer lower down.

The only g'box question is - 'tall' or 'short' 5th? Better to be closer-ratio with 4th, or 6th? The numerical difference is small, but I think would feel different. With the 'short' 5th you'd be at 4500rpm (peak torque) in 5th, the 'long' one at only 4380 - significantly down the power curve.

Punto mk.1 Cabrio/Sporting has 165/65x14s, 1015kg.
Now to work out how this 95PS rig would be in a 770kg Uno SX70! with 165/70x13s, just 1.5% smaller rolling radius (note - a UT weighs 895kg).
 
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Right we're going to do it, as my 1242 140k bottom end is too smoky for MOT.

So a final check before diving in - can anyone see problems with:

Replace the bottom end of my Punto Cabrio mk.1 1242 ELX85 engine, with a lo-mile Stilo/Idea 1368 bottom end complete with 6sp box, putting all the mk.1 Punto ancillaries back on incl my existing recon'd mk.1 head, the mk.1 injection system, all mk.1 electronics, sensors, exhaust, EMS etc?

In other words, the existing 1242 engine and everything but with a 1368 bottom end.

Hoping that the mk.1 EMS would adjust well enough to 11% more ccs, for a start anyway.

Insurance seems only 35% up, on the declared basis of 'replacement engine' and 'chipped +10% bhp' and 'replacement transmission'. Apparently 'bored out' would be a mis-declaration, tho that's what it is, really.
 
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Thanks, I'll note that, tho http://www.automobile-catalog.com says 6sp. Previously I said
More researching on http://www.automobile-catalog.com, 6sp gbox candidates seem to be:

6sp boxes with 4.07 final and 'taller' 5th - 15.91 8.78 6.02 4.56 3.65 3.11
Stilo 01-07, 1.2s as well as 1.4s
Bravo mk.2 1.4s

6sp, same 4.07 final but 'shorter' 5th - 15.91 8.78 6.02 4.56 3.75 3.11
Idea 06-12 1.4s
Panda 100HP 06-10
Grande Punto mk.3 16v 1.4s
Punto mk.2-and-a-half Sporting 1.4

This compares with 5sp Punto boxes:
Punto mk.2 and 2-and-a-half - with 'tall' 3.44 final and the 'taller' 5th - 13.45 7.42 5.09 3.86 3.09
Punto mk.1 - back to the 'short' 4.07 final and same 'taller' 5th - 15.91 8.78 6.02 4.56 3.65

That 'tall' mk.2 box explains a lot about the mk.2's disappointing character, while the 'short' mk.1 box is delightful! All it lacks is a M-way 'overdrive' top, which any of the 6sps will provide. Pity it doesn't bring ratios closer lower down.

The only g'box question is - 'tall' or 'short' 5th? Better to be closer-ratio with 4th, or 6th? The numerical difference is small, but I think would feel different. With the 'short' 5th you'd be at 4500rpm (peak torque) in 5th, the 'long' one at only 4380 - significantly down the power curve.

Punto mk.1 Cabrio/Sporting has 165/65x14s, 1015kg.
Now to work out how this 95PS rig would be in a 770kg Uno SX70! with 165/70x13s, just 1.5% smaller rolling radius (note - a UT weighs 895kg).
Any comments? I'm now thinking that the 'short' 5th, from Idea, Panda, GP or Punto 1.4 Sporting, would be significantly nicer - 5th closer to 4th - and let 6th just be a Mway o'drive.
 
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I am told to be careful because 1368 blocks have some kind of split crankcase design, while 1242s are conventional. Doesn't look like that on eper. Would it matter anyway, as long as mounts, head face and bellhousing face are the same?
 
I am told to be careful because 1368 blocks have some kind of split crankcase design, while 1242s are conventional. Doesn't look like that on eper. Would it matter anyway, as long as mounts, head face and bellhousing face are the same?

You should be able to swap mounts around. No biggie. try and find foxyemz and J333EVOs 1.4 16v threads (in the Cinq/Sei section, of course, advanced search will locate -- lots of pics and finished projects. ;)
 
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