Hi, I am new to Fiats and a couple of weeks ago bought a 1998 1.2 3 door with probable head gasket failure for my daughter.
The car has done 54k miles from new and one family ownership from new as well.
I got the car home removed the plugs and filled the rad with water, well it came pouring out of plug number one so definately a gasket failure.
Removed the head and sure enough gasket split between cylinders one and two plus cylinder one and a water way.
As my daughter lives a fair diatance away I decided even though the head looked level I would get it skimmed, bought a new gasket set complete with new head bolts and a new thermostat housing and stat, plus a new water pump, timing belt and tensioner.
Gave the valves a bit of a clean and lap, new valve guide oil seals, cleaned the block with some wet and dry, cleaned all surfaces and fitted the new head gasket plus all the rest of the new bits.
Torqued the head down to 30nm then 90 degrees then a further 90 degrees.
Changed the oil and filter topped up the rad, bled the system and turned the engine over with the coil packs disabled for a short while to get the oil around abit.
Re-fitted the coil pack wires and started the engine, ran nice for a while and got the heater in the car to run hot and the rad fan switched in and out so I thought all was good WRONG!! loads of white/grey smoke out the exhaust. Switched engine off and sulked for the rest of the evening, checked the water level the following day and it had dropped, refilled and tried again, first minute or so all was well then the smoke started again, ran it for a while, switched off and when cool enough checked the rad again and again it had lost water.
This evening I decided to tighten the head bolts a further 45 degrees to see if that would help but no it is still the same. When running the engine sounds fine but I'm now a bit stuffed having spent the best part of £100 on bits etc. and all to no avail or am I missing something?
I can only assume it is either a cracked head, cracked block or a rubbish gasket set, has this happened to anyone else? anyone got any ideas I can try to check what is wrong.
Sorry for the long winded post but am a little miffed to say the least.

Rare indeed for blocks or heads to crack on these engines (unless frost damage).

I'd suspect that the exhaust has a lot of water in it, and it may just be that.

Compression test to put mind at ease optional.

But, with engine up to temperature, and running, check for leaks from the water pump and/or water pump/water rail O ring.

Its cold - so lots of richly moist air been crammed in - and get fired out as ""what looks like steam""

Also as said - the exhaust harbours quiet abit of water - so this too will need time too allow the exhaust system to boil it off

To me - it sounds like you've done everything right - except allow a little bit of settling time and possible a exagerated cooling system bleed

Ziggy

When you take the head off and completely drain the coolant it is natural to lose a bit, sometimes upto around 1 litre for the first few miles as the water works it way into the nooks and crannies.

Also as said if it has been sat a long time I would leave it for at least half an hour idling to try and get rid of some of the condensation! It can take a long time than you would think.

The only mistake you have made is by further tightening the headgasket it will be under more strain, but you may get away with 45 degrees more without too much damage.

A Q I asked in https://www.fiatforum.com/members-motors/305811-another-mk1-cabrio.html, got no answer, maybe someone here knows?

After head skim, new gasket etc by Italian Specialist, soon blew again, re-done FOC, fine since. Pete said he'd never had that happen before, but did find the block 3.5thou low (never usually reckons to check the block) where it blew.

Question is, is 3.5thou on the block a problem or not?

yes - it sounds like you've been thorough!,

I take it it's an 8v motor by your " leaking from plug hole" scenario,
yes the water level can drop /settle but only the once really,


if you have the plugs out again you should see which are right and which are "steam-cleaned",

there can be some options to wrongly connect wiring on the fuel rail - i've seen this mess-up running after a minute or so..!!,
Charlie

fostertom said:

A Q I asked in https://www.fiatforum.com/members-motors/305811-another-mk1-cabrio.html, got no answer, maybe someone here knows?

After head skim, new gasket etc by Italian Specialist, soon blew again, re-done FOC, fine since. Pete said he'd never had that happen before, but did find the block 3.5thou low (never usually reckons to check the block) where it blew.

Question is, is 3.5thou on the block a problem or not?

Click to expand...

Hi,
not too sure what engine configuration that's on,

if they are fixed cam-timing then you should be fine - if you're on variators then there could be a mild risk of collision.

was it "clayed-up" before reassembly??,
Charlie

Thank you all for your input, I have read it all and last night tried a few bits out.

I should have said that I have left the timing cover off and saw that there are no leaks from the water pump or the pipe that exits the back of it. No water leaks visible within the engine bay whatsoever.

I topped the water up once more and then let it run for 30 minutes all on it's own, the cooling fan kicks in and out on a regular basis and the top and bottom hoses are hot but not overly pressurised. I then put the revs up to around 2500-3000 and the "smoke" billowed out as before. Decided to take it for a run and oblitorated the road behind me, did this a few times (probably about 3-4 miles) before letting it idle again for another 10 minutes or so, took it for another blat down the road and it seemed to be less "smokey" behind, carried on and did about 20 miles, more often than not in third gear to keep the revs up, it seemed to clear, well it was definately better than the first attempt. Got back home and the amount of "smoke" was considerably less. Water has gone down a little but not too much so was thinking of doing a few miles tonight to see if it looses any more and see if the smoke is noticeably less.
Oil level is spot on as a friend of mine asked if I had over filled it. I am also using 10/40 oil incase it makes any difference.

Again thank you for your input and I will let you know how this get on.

so is it a 8v or 16v 1.2?? Just so everyone's clear which engine we are talking about..

blu73 said:

so is it a 8v or 16v 1.2?? Just so everyone's clear which engine we are talking about..

Click to expand...

Sorry, it is an 8V engine.

did you bleed the cooling system?

well having read that more thoroughly than last time i would also guess that the exhaust has/had alot of water in it and will clear. Although i would say i have had and know of people having cheap gaskets not lasting long, i would recommend genuine fiat gasket in future. I did think are you positive you put the HG the right way up, should be "ALTO" stamped in the side that faces up, but i wouldn't have thought it would work for very long if you'd done that.

And as above, system properly bled, i think these have 2 bleed screws like a cento right?

Looks like a lot of coolant went into the combustion as the old damaged gasket was not fixed in good time. Is possible there is some internal damage in the engine as a result of all this. Hopefully the coolant loss stops soon and then you can assess the damage if any by checking how good the engine runs. Another oil change may be a good remedy. Also check for wet patches under the engine (waterpump area) in the mornings before you start the engine. I had loss like that on my engine and it turned out to be the o-ring on the pipe behind the waterpipe. I use a brake easy bleed to put pressure into the cooling system which in term showed me that the coolant was leaking from the O-ring area. Also this trick can be used to identify other leak locations that you cannot spot easily at the moment.

Bit of an update. Have done about 70 miles now on minor roads as well as a 20 mile blatt down a motorway, car performed well and it would appear no further water lose, oil level spot on so I'm fairly happy for the daughter to come and collect it.
Only minor item I have noticed is that when hot and at idle the revs seem a fraction high and it sometimes hunts a little but only a very small amount so think she will just have to live with that.
Thanks to everyone for their help and ideas, I have done many head gaskets over the years mostly on older cars never one on a Fiat and didn't expect so much water obviuosly still in the exhaust for such a long time but we live and learn.

Hunting idle on Mk1 is almost always a dirty throttle body. Worthwhile carefully noting where all the pipes and stuff go -- although there's a diagram in the Cinquecento/Seicento guides, and cleaning it well with aerosol carb cleaner. Do the outside first.

Thanks for that, if I get time before she turns up for it I will give it a go, if not enough time then it will have to wait till Christmas break, oh the joys of working on cars over Christmas