Pretty confident the head gasket in the Sporting is on the way out.

From starting issues to hesitation, its starting to get worse and the last thing I want is to just get stranded. So, i'm looking into my options.

The choice is to either strip the engine and replace the head gasket or to just drop the whole thing and stick a new lump and head in complete.

May seem an obvious choice to the majority of you but here is how I look at it...

Head gasket - Head gasket set (£40), fancy cam locking tools (£40), Ribe socket set (£25), head skim (£40). Thats not taking into account any other special tools I don't have. I also haven't ever really worked on the 16v Fire. I've also never done a head gasket (although have the theory on how to do it and am confident to). The Head gasket on the 16v seems a right pig of a job with bits falling out when you remove the head etc and needing to make up special tools to keep things together. All in all, looking at least £140 for me to be able to do the head gasket at home myself.

Engine change - Engine lump (£150-180). I already have all of the tools and know how as far as dropping out the engine and swapping in a new one goes. Done it before and although in theory, a bigger job, I would feel more confident doing it over the head gasket. It would be a slightly more expensive job though.

Either job doesnt take into account a new cam belt, tentioner and waterpump as I have literally last week replaced them on the current engine so would just reuse them.

So what would you do? Is the 16v gasket change as much of a pain in the arse as everyone seems to make out? Is there a guide with pics anywhere online?

Cheers!

well i have never done a HG on a 16v either but.. If you drop another engine in your still possibly gonna have to end up doing the HG anyway.. If it were me i'd just fix it.

same as above, repair it! there is no guarantee that a replacement engine wont do the same thing after a few hundred mile or worse

There is that too...

There must be an online guide somewhere?

was the engine running crap before the belt change?
ribes £19 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-Ex...0709?pt=UK_Recovery_Tools&hash=item3cc56a38f5

cam lockers are only £21.12 -10% + vat +postage, sell one you still only need one as you wont be removing the cams from carrier.

the tools to keep buckets in you make out of some of that "L" metal shelf legs

or

head gasket isn't common to go for no reason on a 16v, get a know good engine off a trusted member and it should be fine

Ribes I'm not sure I need? Been looking and all I can see the need for them is to remove the little caps on the head which leave holes for the proper head bolts, which look like normal hex nuts (just need a long extension bar and an impact socket to get at). I used some star allan keys to remove the one I had a peek at. Correct me if I'm wrong though!

Cam lockers your right. Only need the 1 but sold in pairs. I can sell after as you've said.

As for the tools to keep buckets in, I understand I can make some up but Im not sure what I'm actually doing with them (hence trying to find a guide with pics)...

Pretty sure it is the gasket on this though. Was the first thing I thought when it started playing up. Oh and yeah it was playing up before I changed the cam belt (which I only did as the waterpump failed). The cooling system was full of air when I got the car and must have overheated not long before I bought it, slightly blowing the gasket...

Bidding on a Haynes anyway, although bar the cam carrier internals falling out, im pretty sure I know what im doing.

Oh wait, looking at shop4parts, are the head bolts ribe heads then? Couldnt really tell looking through the hole in the head.

So, before I go ordering stuff (will have to wait a week or 2 anyway until pay day)... Symptoms...

Rough starting, not firing on all cylinders (mostly seems like 3 cylinders but last few days seems like 2 sometimes...) for the first 5-10 seconds. Then settles and idles fine. Drives fine except for occasionally hesitating when under load between 1500-3000rpm. Occasional loss of power (hesitation/jerkiness) when holding the engine between this rev range. Has plenty of power and does occasionally start and drive faultlessly. No overheating, no oil/coolant mix or loss.

I haven't done a compression test (dont have the tools and am reluctant to book it into a garage to do so). Seems to be doing pretty much exactly what an old Rover 218vvc coupe I had did, and that was a knackered head gasket...

Sound like headgasket to anyone else?

compression tester is well cheap, well worth purchasing one IMO, worth its weight in gold in situations like this.. I certainly wouldn't be changing a HG without doing a compression test first..
I've got one of these, infact i think i might even have 2 lol

Arrgghh... confused myself even more now I hate this engine

So, the cam carrier is attached to the head with a gasket of its own, the head then bolts to the block with the head gasket in between. So, does the carrier bolt to the head with its own bolts or do the head bolts go through the head itself and the carrier?

At what point do the internals fall out when taking it all apart? presuming they fall out of the carrier? Could I not just lift the carrier and head off, keeping it together? Or does it not work like that? I dont get it.

As for compression tester... What size thread would I need for this engine?

whatever size threads the plugs are.. don't know off top of my head but that one i linked, it will defo be one of the threads supplied

your head is 2 parts, the bolts that are under the caps (normally ribe, but been known to be female hex too) are for the cam carrier, that comes off before the head, the angle iron slides under the back and front so when you lift it the buckets dont fall out, as they sit in the carrier.
when carrier is removed you can see head bolts

Compession test results are in

I have no idea what these really mean in terms of being correct or incorrect or whether the variations are enough to equal a fault or not, so I need your advice

I followed the instructions that came with the tester (draper)... Engine warm, ignition disconnected, 1 spark out at a time, leaving the other sparks in. Crank the engine on the key for 10 seconds, read off what the result was...

Cylinder 1 - 10 bar
Cylinder 2 - 8.5 bar
Cylinder 3 - 9 bar
Cylinder 4 - 10 bar

I'm guessing this could equal a potential small break in the gasket between cylinders 2 & 3?

One thing I did notice was whilst cranking 2 & 3, there was a noticable "puffing" sound on each turn of the engine. It didnt do this on 1 & 4.

So, ideas?

as far as i know, but don't quote me on this..

upto 10% variance is considered acceptable result, and the theroetical max possible compression on this engine is about 13.5 bar so actual compression is reasonable but the variance across the result points towards time to change the HG and check the valves etc while the head is off.

Instead of starting a new thread on this subject, I'm just going to tag this here..

Going to do the head gasket myself now. Just have a few questions regarding what I need and how to do stuff. I bought a haynes manual but even after researching what was in the manual and that it covered the 16v engine, its doesnt :bang:... 8v petrols and diesel only ... My thinking is the one I purchased is an older version? Who knows...

Anyway, Im confident of the procedure. Its easy enough really. Just need to know what tools I need...

Tools :

Cam locking tool, ribe bit set, angle iron to stop stuff from falling out of the cam carrier... Anything else?

With the angle iron thing. How exactly do I place it under the carrier? And where exactly? Can't find any detailed info on this anywhere.

Parts : Head gasket set, Head bolts

Cam belt, tentioner, and waterpump were all done 3-400 miles ago so I'm reusing those parts.

With the head gasket set, I've seen a seller on ebay selling the gaskets and bolts together but they are for the MK2. Bar the exhaust gasket, are all of the other gaskets and the bolts the same in this set? Otherwise I can buy them seperate but may cost more.

What are the torque settings for the head bolts? And I presume they are stretch bolts so will a 90 degree turn after torquing do the job? Also, undoing and tightening the bolts, guessing I go diagonally from the outside in?

Also, when cleaning up the head, what's the best thing to use? Do I need to use any sealant between the head and the cam carrier along with the gasket?

Anyone know of an online guide with pics as a reference?

Cheers

go get a mk2 haynes that does 16v and tells you measurements to cut the angle iron to

dont buy dodgy no brand ebay kit, get a known brand or do it twice

a skim cleans the head, no sealers to be used

bolts go 90 deg twice after torque, buy a dial gauge dont do it my eye, tool moves about 110 deg at the end to turn the bolt 90.

undoing is reverse of doing up

4 equal lengths of dowel to make sure pistons all stay level

These bits that drop out of the carrier... What happens when the drop out? Can I not just put them back in?

Why did fiat think it was a good idea to not secure them in?

no cars have them secured in as far as i know, if they fall out they get mixed up its best if they go back in same holes.

Just been investigating...

I can reach and undo the cam carrier bolts with my torx bits. Infact, they arent very tight. Is that right? I would have just assumed they would need to be quite tight

Are the actual head bolts ribe too? If so, are they the same size as the cam carrier bolts? Got some torx socket bits which will be worth giving a go before I spend money on a ribe bit/set.

These "bucket holder tools" you say can be made with angle irons... How do you use them? Do you undo the carrier, then lift it up slightly and slide one side of the angle iron underneath? So the same on both sides? Could I not just slide a thin sheet of metal/wood underneath? Sure I saw a picture somewhere of someone lifting the carrier out using a cloth they had slid underneath

are you sure they wasnt putting it back?

there are 2 locators that stick out that make it a pain trying to slide any thing uner with out a cut out
head bolts are a slightly bigger ribe iirc, cam carrier wont be too tight as it dont have the presure of a head, also they go into alloy too tight will strip threads

is a bit fuzzy i'll try again https://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/data/616/DSCF00364.JPG got no scanner no more


thats better https://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/data/616/DSCF00376.JPG lucky its not at the bottom of the page bink ripped that out