Hi all,

I've had problems with under the bonet knocking since I brought my 97 p reg punto 55 s.

After lot's of probing around the engine using the screw driver in ear and on engine method, Me and my dad have come to the conclusion that it's the camshaft or camshaft bearing's, the noise and knocking is most heard and felt on the screwdriver at the coil pack end.

After looking about on the internet and getting in touch with different engine reconditioning place's etc, It seem's you can't get camshaft bearing's for my car, and apparently the camshaft just slots into the head

I'm hoping this may fit in with the power loss, flat spots, and engine rattle under load. If you floor the pedal in any gear other than first, It's response is dead and heavily delayed. I was just thinking that if the camshaft is moving in it's bearing cups up down or left or right it may not be shutting or opening the valves long enough or too long? Timing is correct, new leads and plugs have been fitted. Head gasket was done, but problem was there before and after, every 12months she get's fresh oil and filter's. Throttle body has been replaced, fuel filter, coil packs, all too no avail. But she is high mileage over 100,000.

Anyway I've decided that the only option I have is a cylinder head transplant? My local scrap yard has suggested around £40 for another full head. When I get one I will be cleaning what I can valves etc and will be having the head skimmed before fitting it too mine.

What advice can anybody on here give in looking for a donor head?

Mileage on the donor car?
If once the rocker cover is open (the donor car), Its nice and oily?
Also have I got to have the same model of punto head? i.e 55 s only.

Thanks in advanced for reading :worship:

head gasket failure is common so donor head may already have been skimmed; there are marks on the head to detect overskimming; have you checked compression on your car?

Hi tinytim,

Thanks for replying, I haven't had a compression test done yet, But even though it probably mean's nothing it does idle nicely at around 800 rpm (steady) and does have power in 1st gear, I think if it was compression down, would it be under power in every gear? That area I'm not sure in.

Skimming wise, What are the mark's am I looking for? I have a tasty selection of cars to work with up there, But do I need stay to a 55 s head.


Forgot add, The knocking im 100% sure is coming from were I've marked white in the picture. And I forgot add that my camshaft wheel does wobble when the engine is running, But the nut is tight!

Just trying get this one sorted, Before baby number 2 is born in november. As I will struggle to find time lol

Thanks
Dave :worship:

If you open the cam cover you can check the cam bearings by removing the bearing caps - one by one so you dont have the camshaft flip out!!!

The bearings run directly into the aluminium - common practice on most engines today.

Hi WhiteSei,

Well from what we can hear and feel, Its the end marked in the picture, But how do I go about replacing it as so the net says you cant replace the bearing? I can't find anywhere to get them from, hence another head?

Thanks for replying.
Dave

Hi all,

Just uploaded 2 video's to u'tube. It has recorded the noise I keep talking about . Just hoping this might help, so atleast you can hear. Theres also a video showing the camshaft wobble, it looks less on the video, but is more with the eyes :bang:


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF3F9hCa0Eo"]YouTube- My engine knock punto[/nomedia]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sSl5rwL728"]YouTube- My engine knock punto[/nomedia]

Hope these help, I know without a noise to listen to. Its like stabbing in the dark. Or guess work. I am 100% sure its the camshaft.

Thanks
Dave

pm sent

Ouch thats nasty. I'd get another head as it might have screwed up the bearing shims and mullered the seat.

Thanks for the reply's. yep and it sounds worse with your own ear's. This is why I want to get it sorted.

Could this be also tied in with my problem of poor acceleration, The car was knocking and poor acceleration since I had her 2 years ago. And anything I've done or replaced has never cured any of them 2 problems. Other than the knocking you can hear in the video's. Which I guarantee is in and around the rocker cover and ends. there no other problems I can see or hear.

Which I think is good for a high mileage car hehe


Thanks
Dave

Well I would of thought it would have an issue with the acceleration. My 55s picks up nicely, well for a 1.1 with 3 people in it 2 of which are rather large lol.

Whats the mileage on it?

simondhopkins said:

Well I would of thought it would have an issue with the acceleration. My 55s picks up nicely, well for a 1.1 with 3 people in it 2 of which are rather large lol.

Whats the mileage on it?

Click to expand...

well mine picks up at about the same rate as fully loaded first pmt bus lol a mini has out done me before, and i hate pulling off at roundabouts, and junctions. and that's with me in only! the mileage is 101.627

its was at 94k when I had her. but I havnt got any history of the car, and the general state of the engine when I got her was'nt good but I have done work on her to get her better, just this knocking I haven't cured yet.

Dave

Ah yeah i'd say its shagged then. My 1996 55s is on 44k but with full service history and looked after alot. But like any car, if treated well they will last ages. Treat them like a sack of spuds they will rot.

But when its just me in the car it pulls very well and usually have to back off on the accelerator otherwise it spins the wheels easily. (in first from stop i mean not going along lol)

simondhopkins said:

Ah yeah i'd say its shagged then. My 1996 55s is on 44k but with full service history and looked after alot. But like any car, if treated well they will last ages. Treat them like a sack of spuds they will rot.

But when its just me in the car it pulls very well and usually have to back off on the accelerator otherwise it spins the wheels easily. (in first from stop i mean not going along lol)

Click to expand...

yea rub it in why dont ye lol

only wheel spins i get is on gravel or grass, i think it would stall on tarmac.

just hopefully another head will sort it, no idea what condition the valves r etc either.

It sounds pretty terminal, but check the compression (wet and dry to confirm leaking valves or rings) all should be ok even if the cam has blown.

If the head gasket was put in wrong the head will be starved of oil and will soon muller the cams etc. But if the tappets are not pumping up that can also sound horrendous. That said, I dont know if the 8V uses hydraulic tappets.

Its just possible the cam bearings are ok but the lobes have worn off so the valves hardly open. Another thing to check with the cam cover off..

WhiteSei said:

It sounds pretty terminal, but check the compression (wet and dry to confirm leaking valves or rings) all should be ok even if the cam has blown.

If the head gasket was put in wrong the head will be starved of oil and will soon muller the cams etc. But if the tappets are not pumping up that can also sound horrendous. That said, I dont know if the 8V uses hydraulic tappets.

Its just possible the cam bearings are ok but the lobes have worn off so the valves hardly open. Another thing to check with the cam cover off..

Click to expand...

Hi mate,

Well the head gasket was don't last year, And i can confirm that oil gets to the top, I started the engine with the rocker cover slightly on, oil went everywhere (like a waterfall from the front of the engine)The 8v is none hydraulic as far as I know. when I first had her this problem was there after an oil change the noise got louder, but the oil that came out was thick like honey and jet black!! hence no previous love 4 her.

my dad seems to agree with that if the camshaft is knackered, the valves may not be opening long enough or shutting quick enough?

Just hoping a last attempt (head transfer) might cure it!

Thanks
Dave

It sounds like a new head is the way to go. But do check that compression. As its been abused you might want to drop the sumps and check the big ends etc. Its a PIA to do but swapping the head to find the bottom end goes AWOL would be worse.

When you get the head off you can do a crude check of the big ends:
Put a spanner on the crank pulley and set to to TDC on any pair of pistons. Because the pistons stop and reverse, there should be a very slight slack feeling around TDC/BDC. If you can feel any clunking when you turn the crank back and forth around TDC its not a good sign. Loose bearings will cause slack.

You cant reliably do this with the cam belt in place as the cam gear stiffens the feel too much and dropping the sump is always a better way to check.

For what it costs, I would seriously consider a replacement used engine.

Yeah a head transplant will be done and i'll report back on this thread when its done, some time soon hopefully, I've go another engine lined up now thanks 2 a certain some one

And thankyou for that sound advice WhiteSei, I will check this when the head is off. And very true, for how much extra work would be involved, its best to check now :worship:

Thanks everyone!

Good luck. Will be worth it.

simondhopkins said:

Good luck. Will be worth it.

Click to expand...

Thanks, fingers crossed

Not sure if its possible to replace camshaft & bearings without removing cylinder head, if so you could just get a head from a scrappy and just use those bits (I think I might still have the old head I replaced a few years ago; the camshaft is ok on that but it had already been skimmed twice)....