Hi Guys,

I have been reading the forum a lot lately, because I have bought an MK2 Punto with the 1.2 v8 engine. The car has some problem what I can't seem to figure it out, neither my mechanic.

The problems are the following which are constant not intermittent.:

• 
  Doesn't have power, having a hard time accelerating and it doesn't go faster than 90 kmp.
  Idles rough (gurgling), running on 3 cylinders for sure.
  It doesn't really want to rev past 3500 rpm, not even stand still. As soon as it hits higher revs it is drowning and decreasing the RPM.
  It has failed the inspection because of high emissions.

So far these things have been tried but nothing seems to work.:

• 
  Changed HT leads (Bosch)
  Changed both coil packs (Bosch)
  Changed spark plugs (Denso)
  Changed to a virgin ECU
  Changed fuel pump, before the tank was emptied and filled with fresh petrol

Sometimes it is throwing the check engine light but as soon it is deleted it is hardly coming back.

First time around it throw: P0351 - Coil A, P0352 - Coil B, P0460 - Fuel level sensor circuit and P0303 - Cylinder 3 missfire. Because of that I thought that the ECU is bad so I went ahead and changed it together with all the ignition parts what I have listed. After I have installed the new ECU a bunch of new codes appeared.:

P0115 - Coolant temperature sensor, P0120 - Throttle pedal sensor, P0230 - Fuel pump circuit, P02D6, P3001, U1600, P0038 heater control circuit and a misfire code. After deleting the codes it is not coming back. (Maybe it was because of the new ECU I'm not sure)

I'm starting to have enough of this car so I really need someone's help, some ideas what this could be? Things I haven't checked yet: Compression and timing.

The car is not mixing oil and coolant and its not loosing neither of them. Please some one help me which direction I should take.

Mine have had similar problems. One time it was faulty fuel injector and other time faulty crankshaft position sensor, neither had all the same symptoms though

unless your mechanic is an unqualified friend of yours helping you out for nothing he should have been able to do a compression test

Why is it running on three cylinders at idle? Has that been confirmed by pulling the plugs to isolate the one not working? A compression test will tell you if the cylinder is able to work correctly. If the compression is good you then just have to figure out what is different about that cylinder and its required components.

Presumably it will fire up all 4 cylinders with some gas, But there is no power to get you over 90km. You need a compression test.

Are you now code free? A cheap code reader is about 40 euros

That’s why we had an argue and I took the car from him because he charged me for incorrect diagnosis... Anyway now I acquired a compression tester I will see what are the results. Now it doesn’t have any codes, I have my own scanner that is how I know the codes and deleted them.

endreoze said:

That’s why we had an argue and I took the car from him because he charged me for incorrect diagnosis... Anyway now I acquired a compression tester I will see what are the results. Now it doesn’t have any codes, I have my own scanner that is how I know the codes and deleted them.

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Just remove the 4 new spark plugs you fitted.. one will be either:
GOLD ..AS NEW ( NO fuel burned)

BLACK. Covered in oil

Dark brown.. burning fuel (sometimes badly)

If the P0115 code does come back, this would fix the issue.

I had to change my whole temp sensor unit in order for it to work. I bought the part on Ebay for £14-15, and the car had the old hose clips so I had to buy two different types for the coolant pipe and the hose connected to the temp sensor unit.

It could be that the bleed valve is blocking the coolant from reaching the housing unit, but I'm not sure, I just replaced the whole thing anyway as my service papers and invoices on repairs didn't show that it's ever been changed (even noticed the rubber was torn).

Open up your antifreeze coolant tube by undoing the cap, open the bleed valve (located to the far right of the car, passenger side). Mine was a bit stiff and it's such a small valve so use something to twist it.

For the tube connected to the fan(the yellow long tube which you put antifreeze in) at the bottom, unclip the hose clamp/clip, pull out the rubber tube and it'll drain your antifreeze. (make sure you have something to catch the fluid. For a replacement clip, not sure if you'll need one but go for a 40mm to 60mm. Even 33mm-50mm would work.

Then once that's drained get to the housing unit for temp sensor,( if you check my posts, you'll see some people were kind enough to help and guide me where to locate the housing unit.)

Double check yours is similar to mine, if it is, you'll need the whole housing unit and not just the temp sensor. PM me for links and I'll send you all the links for the parts I needed.

Remove the hose clip, and to replace it you'll need I think a 22mm -33mm hose clip/clamp to hold it back in place. Unscrewing the unit was difficult, a lot of wiring and tubes were in the way so make sure you push out all wires and clips and there is even a plastic holder near the spark plugs which you'll need to unscrew and twist so it's out the way.

Once you unbolt the unit, push DOWNWARDS not side to side. You might have to put a bit of strength into it and it'll come out. Then use the new unit and you'll have to really really REALLY pull up when placing it in, as you could put it at an uneven angle and cause the bolts to be slanted when screwing in.

Also to unclip the sensor wiring, you'll need to push down the end of the green clip(mine was green) and pull out. Do wipe the sensor port just in case fluids gone into it as it could be the issue that electricity isn't conducting properly.

Overall process wasn't too hard but it's not a walk in the park because of how uncomfortable the unit was positioned. I woke up with a back that felt like I was in the gym for 2hours. Max cost was £14 for the part, £6 for the clips and antifreeze was £12 and roughly 2-3hours of work.

Oh and obviously refill the anti freeze coolant, and make sure you put the bleed valve back in to prevent it from overflowing (dont screw all the way down though as you'll block the antifreeze from getting to where it needs to be, only screw it in when you see it leaking (full)).

I checked the timing and it seems to me that the camshaft is out with like 3 or 4 teeth, the timing belt is not the correct size (overhangs the cam) and the belt is installed the wrong direction. Maybe this is causing all the trouble.?

I just bought a compression gauge today so I will check the compression tomorrow as you guys suggested.

I just bought a compression gauge today so I will check the compression tomorrow as you guys suggested.[/QUOTE]

Please label the plugs 1 to 4 and load the photos on here

okay, will do )

endreoze said:

I checked the timing and it seems to me that the camshaft is out with like 3 or 4 teeth, the timing belt is not the correct size (overhangs the cam) and the belt is installed the wrong direction. Maybe this is causing all the trouble.?

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That does sound like it could be causing your problems!

Panda 2 is in for MOT today and I reported limp home and low power. I have seen the breather pipe in the video check and I was shocked at the state of it. Nealry blocked solid with sludge.

Last week I had the throttle body off Panda 3 and there was an alarming quantity of sludge in the inlet maifold. Removing this, cleaning it all out and cleaning sensors the the pipe work has made an enormous difference to the power output. I can hardly believe the difference.

The dealers mechanic said on the the other car sensors were covered on muck due to this. They also said it needed a new flame arrester (filter?? in the breather).. With a couple of other minor jobs this is clearly going to be the most expensive MOT I have ever had by a factor of 5!!!

I would recommend checking your throttle body and breather system as well. I would have thought that if the cam belt was out by as much as 3 teeth the car would really not run properly at all.

Whatever, I do hope you get it sorted

Here are the sparkplugs. All looks uniform to me. https://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/uploads/251471/IMG_02695.jpg


I did the compression test as well:

Cylinder 1: 240 psi
Cylinder 2: 245 psi
Cylinder 3: 235 psi
Cylinder 4: 245 psi

I warmed the engine up a bit before and I pressed the throttle fully during cranking. I think these results are quite okay. What do you think?

endreoze said:

I checked the timing and it seems to me that the camshaft is out with like 3 or 4 teeth, the timing belt is not the correct size (overhangs the cam) and the belt is installed the wrong direction. Maybe this is causing all the trouble.?

I just bought a compression gauge today so I will check the compression tomorrow as you guys suggested.

Click to expand...

Yes definately will cause problems fix this straight away.

Good luck.

endreoze said:

Here are the sparkplugs. All looks uniform to me. https://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/uploads/251471/IMG_02695.jpg


I did the compression test as well:

Cylinder 1: 240 psi
Cylinder 2: 245 psi
Cylinder 3: 235 psi
Cylinder 4: 245 psi

I warmed the engine up a bit before and I pressed the throttle fully during cranking. I think these results are quite okay. What do you think?

Click to expand...

You have uniformity.. but those plugs tell me it is FAR TOO RICH..

The hint of Biscuit Brown colour on the tips of 3+4...
All of the area on each plug should be that colour

Cam timing :

A new correctly fitting belt is inexpensive..

These motors are safe ..so 3 or 4 teeth out COULD happen

My panda didnt like being 7 teeth out

Okay guys thanks for all of your inputs. It was a messed up timing. First of all the belt itself wasn't the correct one, it was put on the wrong direction and the camshaft was out by 4 teeth. The water pump was fairly new so I guess this wonderful job was performed just before I bought the car.

If someone is reading it in the future check for the 15 mm and 22 mm width belt because both of them has the same number of teeth and length, but still you need to check the width of the belt which one is fitting to your car.

I bought the correct belt, set TDC with the marking on the flywheel, on the crankshaft and the camshaft, it was quite fiddle to align perfectly all of them but I managed it.

Started up and it runs like a champ!!!! I'm so happy. Now I just regret that I changed the ECU and so many other things, because I have suspected the timing at first, but my mechanic said for sure that cannot be the problem so that is why I (and he) started to look at other things, but in the end that was the problem.

Thanks for everyone it is a great forum. )