General Punto MK2b purchase advice

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General Punto MK2b purchase advice

Knulen

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I'm thinking of buying a Punto MK2b, the 5 doors version to be precise. But I would like to have some advice before I buy one.
I'm from the Netherlands and am looking for a "daily" driver (however, I don't drive that much. Living in the city, I do most things by bike)

General:
Are there some general things I should check/test when I'm going for a MK2b? Are there some known problems or weaknesses of this car? Wear and tear? Rust? Electric failure? Mechanical failure?

Engine:
I'm looking at the 1.2 8V engine because the car weighs 850kg what is favorable for the VED (at least, I think this is the right translation for it. Vehicle tax, road tax. The costs I have to pay calculated by the weight and fuel).

How is the quality of the 3 available petrol engines compared to each other? If the 1.2 16V or 1.4 is much better than the 1.2 8V, I would be foolish to still buy the 1.2 8V.

What is a reasonable mileage to buy a car? And with mileage I mean in km, not in mi ;)
My searches are for 5 doors petrol with a maximum of 200.000 km's (~108000 miles)

And not really important at this moment, but something I want to do in the future when I have a MK2b
Options:
If I, for now, assume I'll buy a 1.2 8V. What are the options that were available for this car? What I've read, it won't have seat airbags, cruise control, airco and radio control on the steering wheel.
But I do see a lot of 1.2 8V's with airco (or at least, the knob with a dimple)
I also saw a few seats with side airbags (cover).
I didn't really looked at the cruise control, so I don't know if I have seen 1.2 8V's with cruise control.

The reason for asking. I want to use the interior of a Alfa Romeo 147. I really like the front and rear leather seats of those cars. And they all have (at least, if I'm right) side airbags. And (most?) of them have seat heaters. I don't think the seat heaters are a problem to connect. But it would like it if the seat airbags would work.
And I saw that the steering wheel is compatible, that would be interesting with the cruise control and radio control. But these options are written in the ECU?
However, this is just some future dreaming. However, I would like to know if there are things I could take into consideration if I want to use the cruise control and/or radio control from a 147.
 
I'd recommend you going to a shop that specialize in 'car inspection before purchase' field.
as the car doesn't have only 1 or 2 thing's that you could really identify if the car is worth the money or time..

But if you want my short answer I'd recommend you:
1. inspect paint, inspect tires (over 5 years usually are to be replaced), brakes, windows for cracks, window seals, hinges, struts for leaks
2. Car frame for inepscting if the car had been in major accidents that could compromise structural integrity (in the bonnet you could slightly see the frame, if you lift the carpet and spare tire aswell in the trunk, you could have a good look if car leaks through seals [if spotting water marks or rust] and if frame is damaged.
3. I'd recommend inspecting the underside and seeing the car for the whole. (engine transmission and frame)
4. Test Drive. Give it a good go.
5. Plugging in a fault scanner to see if the car has any faults that could be of concern. The electrical steering motor is something that goes bad in this cars.
 
I'd recommend you going to a shop that specialize in 'car inspection before purchase' field.
as the car doesn't have only 1 or 2 thing's that you could really identify if the car is worth the money or time..

But if you want my short answer I'd recommend you:
1. inspect paint, inspect tires (over 5 years usually are to be replaced), brakes, windows for cracks, window seals, hinges, struts for leaks
2. Car frame for inepscting if the car had been in major accidents that could compromise structural integrity (in the bonnet you could slightly see the frame, if you lift the carpet and spare tire aswell in the trunk, you could have a good look if car leaks through seals [if spotting water marks or rust] and if frame is damaged.
3. I'd recommend inspecting the underside and seeing the car for the whole. (engine transmission and frame)
4. Test Drive. Give it a good go.
5. Plugging in a fault scanner to see if the car has any faults that could be of concern. The electrical steering motor is something that goes bad in this cars.
Thank you for your reply. Most point you mention are things you should always check in general.

I already saw the possible problems with EPS, is this always visible in the dashboard? Or can this problem be there without the notification in the dashboard? (I do have a OBD2 scanner (bluetooth) so I'll do that anyway)
Are there other common (possible) problems for this car?

And how about the engine itself. Are there things I should watch out for?
 
Thank you for your reply. Most point you mention are things you should always check in general.

I already saw the possible problems with EPS, is this always visible in the dashboard? Or can this problem be there without the notification in the dashboard? (I do have a OBD2 scanner (bluetooth) so I'll do that anyway)
Are there other common (possible) problems for this car?

And how about the engine itself. Are there things I should watch out for?

I'm not exactly aware of these specific engines tbh as where I'm from they are quite rare to find.

As of what I see on forums and the internet in general, this is a pretty solid engine, that if taken care of properly, shouldn't be in any major issues.
Of course as you know, very important to check service history.

From my experience with the type of car (mine's a 1.8), the cooling system is quite delicate and sometimes people don't give it proper maintenance. I had to flush my system for 7-8 times after rebuilding the engine to get clear water.

Maybe someone else would reply who's more familiar with this type of engine who could expand a bit more about it.
 
Former Punto owner and driver here, though it's a few years ago that I had to let it go. Some observations, subject to selective memory:

The Engine Question. I believe the 16V drives better (noticeably). I had the 8V, and it has its positives. It's mechanically simpler, and parts (where they are different) for the engine are a bit cheaper. The timing belt swap on the 8V is a feasible DIY job for a non-expert prepared to be careful. On the 16V the job is quite a bit trickier. The 8V engine is "non interference". This means that the pistons cannot (mechanically) hit the valves no matter what happens with the timing belt. That means that if you try to do the timing belt swap yourself, and make a mistake, you shouldn't destroy the engine. It also means if you neglect the belt and it breaks, again your engine should survive (you can never rule out some problem coming from a failure like that, but on most engines you'd be guaranteed bent valves and damaged valve seats, which on a car this age would be instant fatality; not with the 8V 1.2 engine)

Personally I'd go for the 8V engine if I was buying a Punto, especially as they get older.

You need to look carefully for corrosion under the car. It was corrosion that led me to dumping my old Punto in the end, and the damage was done before I'd bought it. The seams under the car (under the sills) are just rolled metal. If people have done things like jacking the car on the wrong point, or using the wrong jack, or using an OK jack but without the right protection, then they can bend and damage the seam, then the corrosion protection is compromised and water can get into the hollow sections. Once that happens, you can get quite dramatic corrosion quite quickly. In theory this can be repaired by welding, but that's unlikely to be economical at this age. Also, on one side of the car it is likely to require removal of the fuel tank (IIRC), which adds cost, complexity, and a little bit of danger to the job.

All that said, I really liked the car. It was super practical. It was a likable drive, and I found it fine on the motorway even. Very easy to navigate around town, while at the same time having more lugging capacity than you'd expect (I bought all the tiles for my kitchen and brought them home in that Punto:


  • I had them distributed in the passenger footwell, rear footwell, boot so that the suspension would sit even, and I was VERY careful on speedbumps, but it went just fine.
  • Also the car worked fine when first baby arrived, even though we had a big buggy (worth more than the car!).
  • Also did lots of IKEA trips, and got big stuff home (folding down seats etc,. works great).
  • Also moved about 20 fruit bushes off my allotment to new garden: had branches and leaves coming out the windows at the back and from passenger side, great days :)


Last thing: I definitely recommend getting the 5 door version. It makes it a really practical small vehicle (and from what you describe, that might be what you need: something to do the jobs (like moving tiles, or buying plants) that just don't work on a bike or on foot).
 
Former Punto owner and driver here, though it's a few years ago that I had to let it go. Some observations, subject to selective memory:

The Engine Question. I believe the 16V drives better (noticeably). I had the 8V, and it has its positives. It's mechanically simpler, and parts (where they are different) for the engine are a bit cheaper. The timing belt swap on the 8V is a feasible DIY job for a non-expert prepared to be careful. On the 16V the job is quite a bit trickier. The 8V engine is "non interference". This means that the pistons cannot (mechanically) hit the valves no matter what happens with the timing belt. That means that if you try to do the timing belt swap yourself, and make a mistake, you shouldn't destroy the engine. It also means if you neglect the belt and it breaks, again your engine should survive (you can never rule out some problem coming from a failure like that, but on most engines you'd be guaranteed bent valves and damaged valve seats, which on a car this age would be instant fatality; not with the 8V 1.2 engine)

Personally I'd go for the 8V engine if I was buying a Punto, especially as they get older.
Why would you go for the 8V is the 16V drives better? Only because of the non interference (what is actually quite nice)

You need to look carefully for corrosion under the car. It was corrosion that led me to dumping my old Punto in the end, and the damage was done before I'd bought it. The seams under the car (under the sills) are just rolled metal. If people have done things like jacking the car on the wrong point, or using the wrong jack, or using an OK jack but without the right protection, then they can bend and damage the seam, then the corrosion protection is compromised and water can get into the hollow sections. Once that happens, you can get quite dramatic corrosion quite quickly. In theory this can be repaired by welding, but that's unlikely to be economical at this age. Also, on one side of the car it is likely to require removal of the fuel tank (IIRC), which adds cost, complexity, and a little bit of danger to the job.
Do you by any change have a picture (from your old car?) how I can spot these corrosion points? I guess it's not really noticeable because it is inside the seam, unless you know where to look?

All that said, I really liked the car. It was super practical. It was a likable drive, and I found it fine on the motorway even. Very easy to navigate around town, while at the same time having more lugging capacity than you'd expect (I bought all the tiles for my kitchen and brought them home in that Punto:


  • I had them distributed in the passenger footwell, rear footwell, boot so that the suspension would sit even, and I was VERY careful on speedbumps, but it went just fine.
  • Also the car worked fine when first baby arrived, even though we had a big buggy (worth more than the car!).
  • Also did lots of IKEA trips, and got big stuff home (folding down seats etc,. works great).
  • Also moved about 20 fruit bushes off my allotment to new garden: had branches and leaves coming out the windows at the back and from passenger side, great days :)


Last thing: I definitely recommend getting the 5 door version. It makes it a really practical small vehicle (and from what you describe, that might be what you need: something to do the jobs (like moving tiles, or buying plants) that just don't work on a bike or on foot).
I also really prefer the 5 door version. The rearseat doors makes it just so much more easy to use the space. I don't want the doors for other people get in the car easier. It's mainly to have better access to the car.

Punto mk2b common issues:
-rust on floor/under door sills and front struts
- steering position sensor
- blown head gasket 1.2 8V
- ECU (spark coil drivers) 1.2 8V
- The steering position sensor, is this the known EPS fault? And what I've read, if this fault is induced by the steering column, the whole column needs to be replaced? (that's what I read about the steering torque sensor, is this the same with the steering position sensor?)
- Can a pre-blown (almost-blown) head gasket be spotted? Do the other engines (1.2 16V and 1.4) also have this problem?
- ECU spark coil drivers, I don't know what this means?
The last two problems are 1.2 8V specific? Does this make the 1.2 16V or 1.4 engine a better choice?
Rust took out my very pretty 2001 Mk2 two door. Today you would be better with a 169 Panda. They seem to hold up well have similar performance to the Mk2 Punto.
But the downside of the Panda is, I don't like the car. In my opinion, the Punto looks nice. The Panda is not my type of car :p
 
Why would you go for the 8V is the 16V drives better? Only because of the non interference (what is actually quite nice)
The simplicity of maintenance, and cheapness of parts. Non-interference also is nice, and part of that picture. In Ireland (where I was when I owned the Punto), 8V engines were also much more common so more parts availability.

That said, I never drove a 16V. Who knows, maybe if I did I could never go back!

Do you by any change have a picture (from your old car?) how I can spot these corrosion points? I guess it's not really noticeable because it is inside the seam, unless you know where to look?
I can do better than pics, here's a forum thread on it:
https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/356162-corrosion-pointers-please.html
I was asking for help on what to do/ how to assess it. The car eventually got through an NCT (MOT equivalent in Ireland) test with this corrosion, albeit I had cleaned it up and did a little bit of filling, and slathered everything with under-seal. But I got rid of it soon after.

Not all corrosion will be as obvious as this!


I also really prefer the 5 door version. The rearseat doors makes it just so much more easy to use the space. I don't want the doors for other people get in the car easier. It's mainly to have better access to the car.
They're lovely cars really.
I'm very interested what you find. I'd have thought they were sort of ageing off the road at this stage: falling foul of corrosion in the main, and others being picked off by expensive faults like the power-steering one, or head gasket issues.

Which reminds me: one other fault that often happens is the thermostat sticks (often in open position, so over-cooling). Symptom is that the engine never seems to warm up properly (you see the temp gauge staying down low a lot, while it should come up to mid-way and stick there once the engine is running). It's a very cheap part, and should be an easy fix (I did it DIY on the road in front of the house). However if it's neglected it can increase the odds of head-gasket failure as the engine keeps thermally cycling warm-cold-warm-cold and that is bad for it in lots of ways (also fuel economy suffers).
https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/340156-temperature-variations.html

(And again, retrospective thanks to all the great people on these forums. I got some great help, and the warm community here made me even more affectionate towards the Punto.)
 
Yes, EPS failure. You dont need to replace whole column, only sensor (ebay cca 60-70 usd).
Blown gasket could show issues, from consuming coolant to overheating.

If 16v overheat, engine head could get cracks between valves
Also 16 v engines have issues with throttle body. 8v doesnt.

If spark plugs dont change regulary, coils "burn" drivers inside engine ecu. Then you need replace ecu (used, uncoded). Repairing drivers doesnt last long-been there, done that
 
Also, I'd say that if I was buying a car that might be almost 20 years old, I'd put more premium on the robustness of the design versus the absolute performance. The 8V engine is pretty sturdy all things considered, and easily worked on even by an occasional DIY mechanic.
 
Do you have the “punto classic” in the Netherlands? If not the newest mk2b punto are likely to be around 14 years old now and may be suffering from significant rust issues.

If you have the classic they did make it up till 2012 and you may find a newer one if someone has brought it in from else where in eastern parts of Europe, I know as he withdrew the mk2b it got to the point it was only sold in eastern parts of Europe?

Personally if you drive rarely and want a little car, I’d go for a moderate to highly specc’d panda.
 
I’ve a mk2 2003 before that boring facelift and in my opinion the best looking punto . It’s a 1.2 8v which I like for simplicity it’s a small fun car after all . No electric windows , had them before and they give problems . I have no temp gauge which makes you check the fluids more often believe me . Against - can rust underneath / head gaskets are Russian roulette and the cooling system hardest I’ve ever bled in any car !!! However it’s a dependable little yoke on the whole and a cheap little car that can handle almost anything you throw at it on a good day
 
What are the experiences here with the 1.4 16V engine? I see a lot of comments about the 16V engine but I don't know if this is about the 1.2 16V or 1.4 16V (or both?). I probably caused this confusion myself by asking about the 1.2 16V engine. It's clear to me I should always go for the 1.2 8V instead of the 1.2 16v. However, there are currently only a few cars for sale that are interesting. That's brings me to the option of the 1.4 16v which also has other optional pluses like cruise control and climate control and I think some other options like automatic wipers? (don't know for sure, don't really care for them but I saw an ad mention them)

The simplicity of maintenance, and cheapness of parts. Non-interference also is nice, and part of that picture. In Ireland (where I was when I owned the Punto), 8V engines were also much more common so more parts availability.

That said, I never drove a 16V. Who knows, maybe if I did I could never go back!

I can do better than pics, here's a forum thread on it:
I was asking for help on what to ...really don't see myself driving in a Panda ;)
 
What are the experiences here with the 1.4 16V engine? I see a lot of comments about the 16V engine but I don't know if this is about the 1.2 16V or 1.4 16V (or both?). I probably caused this confusion myself by asking about the 1.2 16V engine. It's clear to me I should always go for the 1.2 8V instead of the 1.2 16v. However, there are currently only a few cars for sale that are interesting. That's brings me to the option of the 1.4 16v which also has other optional pluses like cruise control and climate control and I think some other options like automatic wipers? (don't know for sure, don't really care for them but I saw an ad mention them)
Just to be clear on my own meagre contributions: I wouldn't say "never buy 16V". If I found a 1.2l 16V car that had really good body-work, no rust, etc., then that would be a good candidate. And it's a better driver, apparently.

The 1.4, however, I know nothing about. Don't know that I ever saw one of those in Ireland. Tax was based on engine size in Ireland, so 1.4l engine in a car as small as a Punto is a big turn-off for a lot of people (the 1.2l engine was already annoying in a car that one might expect to be a 1.0l).
 
It was only sold between 2003 and 2009 here. However the age doesn't concern me, I had a car from 1980 and 1987, so I know what rust can do :)

That’s fine but the old cars from the 80s don’t have all the electrical gremlins like an old mk2 punto does.

As others have pointed out the electric power steering is a major problem area and an inevitability on any mk2(b) punto the older and cheaper the cars get compared to the cost of fixing it means it might cost more than the car is worth to fix and if you’re willing to cope with that spend twice as much on a different car that’s not going to have the same problems
 
Since I have that same car, I will just share my experience so far.
2005, 120,000 miles, 5 door.

-Rear bridge was rusty on right side a lot(so rear right side, left was rusty but not as bad), so I had to replace it, also there were few more rusty peaces around rear right wheel.
Theres also some minor rust underneath.
-Steering wheel rarely goes hard, red steering wheel light turns on, happened about 12 times in 3 years I had this car, still wanted to mention it.I turn the car off, turn it on and the problem is gone, sometimes I need to leave the car resting for 4-5 hours before problem is gone.But I noticed if I am going downhill in reverse, steering wheel starts to shake sometimes and thats usually when this problem happens, since I park inside my yard, there is a downhill path.Anyhow, since then I don't park in reverse to avoid stiff steering wheel.
-Rear registration light was not working, plug was actually corroded, replacement was cheap tho.
-Rear doors squeak, need to be cleaned and lubricated with good grease.
-Engine gasket leaked oil but that was easy fix
-If theres 3 or more people in the car you can feel it get heavy, if you're going uphill, you can feel the car struggling.
Driving alone or with one person is a breeze.


Its great car, runs good so far, engine is fine, actually runs super good once it warms up, runs extremely good when you turn it on the second time.

Since I fixed these problems I can't complain much.
Enough space, but I wish there was little bit more leg room and some arm rest for passengers.
One day I will figure out and install one.
Also maybe some rear interior light.
And there is no head rest for rear seats.
 
Owned a MK2 1.216v for 160,000km and currently have a Mk2b 1.4 16v. The main difference being the 1.4 has all its "get up and go" higher up the rev range. unless you are operating 4500rpm plus it can be a bit lethargic. It still pulls smoothly from low rpm so is easy to drive.
As has been said by others the weak point is in the cooling system if neglected. This applies to both versions.
Personally I would be looking for a car with no more than around 100,000km on the clock. Although these may be hard to find given their age!
 
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