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Technical Punto Gearbox Upgrade 5 Speed To 6 Speed

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Technical Punto Gearbox Upgrade 5 Speed To 6 Speed

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You can find gear ratio/max speed calculators to verify.

gear-ratio-comparison.jpg
 
A little more research showed that the Stilo 1.2 16V 6-speed gearbox has different gear ratios than the Punto mk2 1.2 16V 6-speed gearbox. So if you fitted a Stilo gearbox, than you can have higher speeds.
Interesting to know that you can improve your top speed with this "hack".


Find "Transmission specifications" on these pages and click on "Full specification --->>" buttons to see all the gear ratios and top speeds.

Stilo 1.2 16V 6-speed:
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2003/724640/fiat_stilo_5-porte_1_2_16v_active.html

Punto 1.2 16V Sporting, 6-speed:
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2002/723950/fiat_punto_sporting.html

Punto 1.2 16V 5-speed:
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2002/1368920/fiat_punto_3-porte_1_2_dynamic.html


P.S. What are you trying to say, football? :)
 
kido resuri said:
A little more research showed that the Stilo 1.2 16V 6-speed gearbox has different gear ratios than the Punto mk2 1.2 16V 6-speed gearbox. So if you fitted a Stilo gearbox, than you can have higher speeds.
Interesting to know that you can improve your top speed with this "hack".


Find "Transmission specifications" on these pages and click on "Full specification --->>" buttons to see all the gear ratios and top speeds.

Stilo 1.2 16V 6-speed:
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2003/724640/fiat_stilo_5-porte_1_2_16v_active.html

Punto 1.2 16V Sporting, 6-speed:
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2002/723950/fiat_punto_sporting.html

Punto 1.2 16V 5-speed:
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2002/1368920/fiat_punto_3-porte_1_2_dynamic.html


P.S. What are you trying to say, football? :)
Click to expand...

Interesting.

So after more research the final results are the same?


Replacing a punto 5 speed with a Punto 6 speed or a stilo 6 speed produces the same lower RPM noted by Jonik?
 
No, lower RPM / higher top speed can only be achieved by replacing Punto gearbox (5 or 6 speed) with a Stilo 6-speed gearbox. <br />
Punto 5 and 6 speed gearbox have the same top speeds (6 speed top speed is very slightly lower than 5 speed)

In my first post i stated IF Stilo and Punto 6-speed gearbox are the same, then top speeds/revs would be the same... but it turned out that they have different gear ratios. Good to know that it can be fitted to a Punto.
 
Last edited:
kido resuri said:
No, lower RPM / higher top speed can only be achieved by replacing Punto gearbox (5 or 6 speed) with a Stilo 6-speed gearbox. <br />
Punto 5 and 6 speed gearbox have the same top speeds (6 speed top speed is very slightly lower than 5 speed)

In my first post i stated IF Stilo and Punto 6-speed gearbox are the same, then top speeds/revs would be the same... but it turned out that they have different gear ratios. Good to know that it can be fitted to a Punto.
Click to expand...


I have been through your links carefully.


The final drive for the punto 6 speed and stilo 6 speed are only a very tiny amount different. In fact they are so similar there must be a calculation/rounding error as it seems improbable wheel size and gear ratios could produce such a very tiny difference in final drive of .001 difference. It must be an error because 4th gear final drive is identical

If you think they are different perhaps you can guide me to what you are looking at to get a final drive difference.

Yes the stilo 6 speed and punto 6 speed boxes are significantly different. The final drives are however almost identical by 0.001 difference.

According to your links the more highly driven punto 6 speed travels slower at 34.9kmh at 1000 rpm and the lower driven 5 speed travels faster at the same 1000rpm at 35.9kmh. And that is impossible surely?
 
Last edited:
Well, yes, I made a mistake. Stilo 6 speed gear ratios are almost the same as Punto 6 speed gear ratios. Top speed of Stilo is different, because it has larger wheels. My bad, sorry.

Data in the above links are the same as from Fiat eLearn, so I guess they are right.
You can use any speed calculator / gear ratio calculator to check top speeds / speeds at specific revs/gear from these data.
I've uploaded the calculator I used, with pre-filled data for Punto 5 and 6 and Stilo 6 speed ratios, same wheel size, and RPM set so speed is 100 km/h in top gear.
From this, you can see that - according to Fiat provided gear ratio data - 6 speed gearbox should have a slightly higher RPM at same speed as the 5 speed gearbox.

Either Fiat provided data is false, or the 6-speed gearbox in the opening post is not (from) a stock Fiat Stilo 1.2 6-speed car.

"Max engine RPM": you can write any RPM value here to calculate the speeds in different gears for that RPM.


Images:


Punto 5 speed:
speeds-Punto-5-speed.jpg

Punto 6-speed:
speeds-Punto-6-speed.jpg

Stilo 6-speed:
speeds-Stilo-6-speed.jpg


Excel spreadsheet calculators with pre-filled data:
Punto 5: https://www.puntonium.hu/wp-content/uploads/gearbox-Punto-5-speed.xls
Punto 6: https://www.puntonium.hu/wp-content/uploads/gearbox-Punto-6-speed.xls
Stilo 6: https://www.puntonium.hu/wp-content/uploads/gearbox-Stilo-6-speed.xls


Same gear ratios data in this topic:
https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/124051-mk2-6-sp-speed-top-gearbox-ratios.html
 
Last edited:
kido resuri said:
Well, yes, I made a mistake. Stilo 6 speed gear ratios are almost the same as Punto 6 speed gear ratios. Top speed of Stilo is different, because it has larger wheels. My bad, sorry.

Data in the above links are the same as from Fiat eLearn, so I guess they are right.
You can use any speed calculator / gear ratio calculator to check top speeds / speeds at specific revs/gear from these data.
I've uploaded the calculator I used, with pre-filled data for Punto 5 and 6 and Stilo 6 speed ratios, same wheel size, and RPM set so speed is 100 km/h in top gear.
From this, you can see that - according to Fiat provided gear ratio data - 6 speed gearbox should have a slightly higher RPM at same speed as the 5 speed gearbox.

Either Fiat provided data is false, or the 6-speed gearbox in the opening post is not (from) a stock Fiat Stilo 1.2 6-speed car.

"Max engine RPM": you can write any RPM value here to calculate the speeds in different gears for that RPM.


Images:


Punto 5 speed:
speeds-Punto-5-speed.jpg

Punto 6-speed:
speeds-Punto-6-speed.jpg

Stilo 6-speed:
speeds-Stilo-6-speed.jpg


Excel spreadsheet calculators with pre-filled data:
Punto 5: https://www.puntonium.hu/wp-content/uploads/gearbox-Punto-5-speed.xls
Punto 6: https://www.puntonium.hu/wp-content/uploads/gearbox-Punto-6-speed.xls
Stilo 6: https://www.puntonium.hu/wp-content/uploads/gearbox-Stilo-6-speed.xls


Same gear ratios data in this topic:
https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/124051-mk2-6-sp-speed-top-gearbox-ratios.html
Click to expand...

Thanks. I appreciate the effort you made to sort this out. :)


I think the answer might be found in some of the comments I have read here in the past about different 5 speed gearboxes having different gear ratios so that changing the gear box creates undesirable changes. I was for example very reluctant to buy a good cheap gearbox from the UK for my car if they could not provide a box with the same casting number. A box in finland will cost 400 euros compared to one from the UK costing 100 or less.
 
So is it a bad ideia to upgrade a 5speed to a 6speed?
Will it still be the same?
My goal is to help me uphill (as I live in a hilly area), not to have a higher top speed. What do you think?
 
My 5 speed gearbox is second hand, not original. Maybe it can really be from mk1 Punto, bought it from friends friend in 2013 :D

ddrexj said:
So is it a bad ideia to upgrade a 5speed to a 6speed?
Will it still be the same?
My goal is to help me uphill (as I live in a hilly area), not to have a higher top speed. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Yes it will definitely help (y)
 
ddrexj said:
Cool, thanks! (y) Will get to that next week!
Click to expand...

If you have the punto 5 speed listed here in these excel spreadsheets and you upgrade to the listed punto 6 speed you will get a lower first gear. If you use the stilo 6 speed listed here 1 -4 are the same as punto 5 speed. In both the punto and stilo 6 speed fifth has higher revs than 5 speed fifth

As far as climbing hills goes nearly all cars can pull away from extremely steep hills with a bit of clutch in first gear and then there are no differences till you get the higher reving fifth.


Given the figures presented here it is not obvious you will get an advantage and it is possible Jonik previously had a mk 1 5 speed.
 
Last edited:
judderbar said:
If you have the punto 5 speed listed here in these excel spreadsheets and you upgrade to the listed punto 6 speed you will get a lower first gear. If you use the stilo 6 speed listed here 1 -4 are the same as punto 5 speed. In both the punto and stilo 6 speed fifth has higher revs than 5 speed fifth

As far as climbing hills goes nearly all cars can pull away from extremely steep hills with a bit of clutch in first gear and then there are no differences till you get the higher reving fifth.


Given the figures presented here it is not obvious you will get an advantage and it is possible Jonik previously had a mk 1 5 speed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the 5 speed I have is the Punto mk2 standart and the one I'm upgrading to is the Punto Sporting one.

When I say I need help uphill I'm not saying I want the car to be "climbing" hills in 4th gear. I just want it to hold itself in 2nd gear a little bit better.

I thought about doing that since the gearbox was given me for free and was thinking about pairing it with a Punto75 camshaft all that for the car to hold itself better in 2nd gear uphill.

But I'm having my doubts now if the only thing that changes is a sooner change from 1st to 2nd and thinking it's not really worth it...
 
My 5 speed gearbox was from 2000 year Fiat Punto mk2. All the gears are definitely shorter than before, except the sixth of course. How I know, because the rpm limiter starts to interrupt my driving at lower speed. At least with first, second and third gear. Haven't tested fourth gear yet because the speed is so high, it was about 180km/h with 5 speed gearbox. Not 100% sure because speedo got out of range before the limiter :D
[ame]https://youtu.be/9DgKxfuHEIo[/ame]
 
Last edited:
In my last post i was getting muddled up with the gear ratios which must be just the ratio of the input and output shafts and the result created by final drive which presumably involves a different crown wheel/and or pinion gear?

Basically I have no idea what i am talking about and just happened to have a look at Kidu Resuris plutonium document and began wondering how he came up with his figures. Plus since I replaced all my 5th speed bearings and have replaced the input bearing 2 times and had the box open 4 times it seemed like I might know something.


:eek:
 
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