Technical Problem removing gearbox on 2004 Punto.

[Ajay123]

Hi all,

I have started to remove my gearbox prior to replacement on a 2004 Punto.

Not done this on this car type before so using a combination of Haynes manual and a Youtube video.

I've got to the stage of seperating the lower suspension arm from the strut so as to swing it out the way to remove the drive shaft.

However, with everything undone and jacked up the lower suspension arm is hard up against the end of the strut. Jacking up the hub doesn't help it just raises the car off the axle stands but does not compress the coil springs.

The video shows this as a really easy step but I cannot see what I am doing wrong and unsure how to progress.

Only possible options seem to be to either compress the coil springs in situ to raise the strut or completely remove the wishbone and refit afterwards.


Does anyone know the way around this?

Many thanks.

John.

 

[varesecrazy]

Are you just attempting to separate the lower balljoint?

 

[mikehopper]

Hi all,

I have started to remove my gearbox prior to replacement on a 2004 Punto.

Not done this on this car type before so using a combination of Haynes manual and a Youtube video.

I've got to the stage of seperating the lower suspension arm from the strut so as to swing it out the way to remove the drive shaft.

However, with everything undone and jacked up the lower suspension arm is hard up against the end of the strut. Jacking up the hub doesn't help it just raises the car off the axle stands but does not compress the coil springs.

The video shows this as a really easy step but I cannot see what I am doing wrong and unsure how to progress.

Only possible options seem to be to either compress the coil springs in situ to raise the strut or completely remove the wishbone and refit afterwards.


Does anyone know the way around this?

Many thanks.

John.

You may find it easier to remove the 2 bolts holding the bottom strut to the wheel assembly.this will allow you to swing out the suspension strut. By turning out the road wheels each side, one at a time

Do this both sides and hey presto.

 

[mikehopper]

I've actually managed to remove the driveshaft by this method and most times just taking out the top bolt, as pre mentioned and loosening the bottom enough to swing out the wheel assembly

 

[Ajay123]

Thanks for your replies.

Yes, I was trying to separate the bottom balljoint but having undone the retaining bolt there is no free movment to separate the ball joint from the strut even using a lever to try and move the wishbone down. Sounds as though that's not the best way to do this.


All other bolts were pretty well seized so couldn't try any other options today and have soaked them with WD40 and left over night and will have another go in the morning.

I will then give the other option a try with the two bolts holding the wheel assembly to the strut. I am unsure as to how much free movement I actually need to get the driveshaft to disengage. Forgot to mention I've also separated the track rod end.

I see it also mentions removing the speed sensor on the wheel (ABS version). This is also pretty well corroded so I think trying to remove it would end up needing to replace it so don't really want to do that unless absolutely necessary. Is this necessary or should you get enough movement without doing this and without straining the cable (perhaps this is only necessary if you are removing the outer end of the driveshaft to completely remove it from the car)


Hope to also get hold of an impact wrench tomorrow so that should help things.


John.

 

[judderbar]

Thanks for your replies.

Yes, I was trying to separate the bottom balljoint but having undone the retaining bolt there is no free movment to separate the ball joint from the strut even using a lever to try and move the wishbone down. Sounds as though that's not the best way to do this.


All other bolts were pretty well seized so couldn't try any other options today and have soaked them with WD40 and left over night and will have another go in the morning.

I will then give the other option a try with the two bolts holding the wheel assembly to the strut. I am unsure as to how much free movement I actually need to get the driveshaft to disengage. Forgot to mention I've also separated the track rod end.

I see it also mentions removing the speed sensor on the wheel (ABS version). This is also pretty well corroded so I think trying to remove it would end up needing to replace it so don't really want to do that unless absolutely necessary. Is this necessary or should you get enough movement without doing this and without straining the cable (perhaps this is only necessary if you are removing the outer end of the driveshaft to completely remove it from the car)


Hope to also get hold of an impact wrench tomorrow so that should help things.


John.

Jack up the car so both wheels hang down - or you will need to be super strong to work against the roll bar.


No need to remove the electrical connection of the ABS just undo the support bracket on the strut. Unclip the brake cable. Otherwise you cannot get to the strut nuts and bolts. You need plenty of room there as putting them back in is fiddly as you are working against the roll bar with one hand on a pry bar while putting punches into the holes once you locate them


After removing the lower ball joint bolt put a pry bar between the drive shaft and ball joint end to loosen it and lever down on the lower arm with a long bar thru the holes in the lower arm - comes out fairly easily with one person if you step on the lower arm pry bar.

I have always removed both strut bolts. They can be almost welded into place with the rust and need replacing with Fiat extra hardened bolts.


Try to save the strut bolts by working them back and forth many times rather than trying to take them off in one go. Eventually you will break them out of the rust as the bolt twists by small amounts. Getting new bolts is a major hassle if you could have saved them by working them out.

 

[Ajay123]

I do have both wheels off the ground - car on axle stands. But the roll bar still fights back. I was using a lever but it is tricky trying to stand on it and disengage the lower ball joint at the same time. If I can't get enough movement with just the strut bolts bolts removed I'll try again or get a helper to swing the strut out of the way while I stand on the bar.

Yesterday I couldn't even break the initial rust lock on the strut bolts. I am going to try again today. Once removed I'll probably run a die on the bolt to cleant it up a bit before remounting.

Useful to know about the need for specially hardened bolts. I just checked and eventually found someone selling them on ebay at the moment for £6.99 each if all goes bad (stated as genuine).

Sorry tried to post a link to the item but apparently you need 5 posts before you can do so.
Search for 7676615 - there is UK based seller.


John.

 

[varesecrazy]

I do have both wheels off the ground - car on axle stands. But the roll bar still fights back. I was using a lever but it is tricky trying to stand on it and disengage the lower ball joint at the same time. If I can't get enough movement with just the strut bolts bolts removed I'll try again or get a helper to swing the strut out of the way while I stand on the bar.

Yesterday I couldn't even break the initial rust lock on the strut bolts. I am going to try again today. Once removed I'll probably run a die on the bolt to cleant it up a bit before remounting.

Useful to know about the need for specially hardened bolts. I just checked and eventually found someone selling them on ebay at the moment for £6.99 each if all goes bad (stated as genuine).

Sorry tried to post a link to the item but apparently you need 5 posts before you can do so.
Search for 7676615 - there is UK based seller.


John.

You need to REMOVE the bolt from the balljoint.. it acts as a dowel pin

Dont run a die down the threaded section of the old bolts.. you could remove so much metal that torqueing may be dodgy..

Charlie

 

[Ajay123]

Well thanks again for all your helpful advice.

Just a quick update - today was successful.

I have now removed both strut bolts on both sides.
For some reason the bottom ones loosened quickly with the use of an impact wrench but the top ones would not budge. In the end I had to use a length off pipe on the end of my wrench to get enough leverage to very slowly undo the top nuts, working them back and forth with plenty of WD40 until they came off. The bolts have cleaned up nicely so I won't need to replace them.

As advised, I unclipped the brake hose from its bracket and also had to unclip the speed sensor cable bracket from the strut to stop it from being stretched (but didn't need to touch the end on the wheel hub). The Haynes manual wording is confusing as it says "remove the speed sensor" but I now see it is actaully refering just to this bracket.

Errr yes, I had remembered to remove the bolt from the botom ball joint .
I can now see though I was putting cart before horse, as having removed the strut bolts, the strut lifted off the bottom ball joint with only a small amount of leverage needed to overcome the weight of the hub.

Hopefully tomorrow, I will be able to detach the driveshafts and get the gearbox out. I still have a few bolts to remove between block and gearbox.

Also an earlier step said "unbolt the cover plate from the base of the transmission bellhousing" Having removed all the bolts it is not possible to remove this in situ as whichever way you try to manoeuver it, it fouls on a sensor attached to the exhaust. I'll play this by ear and hopefully be able to get it off (and back in again) while removing/refitting the gearbox.

I also wasted a lot of time initially trying to find the speed sensor attached to the diff as it did not mention anywhere that this does not apply to the ABS models.......

The new clutch kit arrived from Eurocarparts today. Very good price as they had a 50% deal on parts - about as cheap as I had seen anywhere!

Here's hoping for some good weather tomorrow ......................

John.

 

[Ajay123]

Well gearbox is now out. Lighter than I expected but I suppose it is only a small engined car.

I have been looking around for recon units. Does anyone have any experience of good reliable suppliers?

I've looked at a couple but when questioned one of them just cleans the casing and fits new bearings and seals and nothing else which makes me 'slightly' nervous.

Even if they do offer a 12 month warranty I don't want to be reliving the gearbox removal any time soon - even though I could now do it quicker the second time around.

John.

 

[judderbar]

Well gearbox is now out. Lighter than I expected but I suppose it is only a small engined car.

I have been looking around for recon units. Does anyone have any experience of good reliable suppliers?

I've looked at a couple but when questioned one of them just cleans the casing and fits new bearings and seals and nothing else which makes me 'slightly' nervous.

Even if they do offer a 12 month warranty I don't want to be reliving the gearbox removal any time soon - even though I could now do it quicker the second time around.

John.

I replaced all my gearbox bearings at 140,000 miles. Apart from the engagement teeth on reverse gear being rounded the box appeared to be in a run in condition with only polishing where parts contact rather than wear that looked like erosion of what was previously there.

The boxes are well designed so that forces are retained by the bearings and you dont need to replace shims or make any adjustments*. They are easy boxes to work on.

* Edit: the differential bearings are shimmed to set the preload.

 

[mikehopper]

Well gearbox is now out. Lighter than I expected but I suppose it is only a small engined car.

I have been looking around for recon units. Does anyone have any experience of good reliable suppliers?

I've looked at a couple but when questioned one of them just cleans the casing and fits new bearings and seals and nothing else which makes me 'slightly' nervous.

Even if they do offer a 12 month warranty I don't want to be reliving the gearbox removal any time soon - even though I could now do it quicker the second time around.

John.

Tamworth punto do a replacement box tats is fully reconditioned. Prices approx 199.99 they have a very good reputation around west mids and have an even bigger field of customers.

I believe the price is supplied and fitted but not 100% sure

Google them and ask for Spencer, mention me s d you may get a small discount.

 

[Ajay123]

Realised I hadn't set my location which is London (West side).


Website says
"We can fix the problem or re-con the gearbox starting from as little as £199 with 12 months guarantee (This is for gearbox removed from car and brought to us)

Full re-con gear boxes are totally stripped and cleaned, fitted with new bearings and seals and repainted - 12 months guarantee"


For the recon I wonder if the price includes parts they need to replace other than the seals and bearings - says from £199 so probably not? Mine has a 3rd gear problem so I assume needs at least new synchronizer rings and/or gear. That lot plus seals and bearings must come to more than £199 even at trade prices without any labour??

Tamworth not totally out of the question - couple of hours up the M40/M6 and I have access to another car for transport.

Although, I see they also list gearboxes as stock items but not any pricing - guess I'd have to give them a ring.

John