I appreciate your reply and feedback Crankshaft..

The two thin wires appear to connect upto a bunch of other various branch of wires ... that appear to come from under the fuse box panel / or lower right dash inner relay section that is on the lower right hand side... and what I think are the other half of those wires were within a thicker Black Cable that seem to be within those other various wires... That I believe many of the other wires are to do with certain lights and also wipers..(That TWO Wires had been CUT ...and I have since reconected together)

Maybe I shoud try to take a closer up photo of that area if I can... that shows that black cable better and where those two wires NOW have been reconnected..

BUT I Myself do not really KNOW where that wire branch or the thicker black cable actually goes to...

I have taken out the various connections of various other wire branchs that connect to the inner fusebox / lower RHS dash board and removed the inner fusebox to try and see where those wires go to...

and I will be honest... I found it rather complex and hard to tell...

All I can seem to see is a few other bunches of wires all connecting various colored wires togther..as what I may describe as branches.. and they go in various directions underneath that lower area.... One goes to what I think maybe the right hand side lights... and I THINK that the branch that contains the Black Cable and the TWO wires... I think goes in a upwards direction.. that I assume may go into the bonnet or engine area somewhere...BUT I am Not really sure...

Could it maybe connect to some part that either connects to the engine or starter motor maybe ? or is their some computer somewhere inbetween the lower area and the bonnet to engine outer areas.....?

But It seems very hard to trace and if I recall the Black Cable may also be part of what was also a type of double branch where two lots of bunchs appear to join somehow... and one appears to bend off.. that has the black cable in it..

I was considering Taking out the Brown and Red wires out of that plastic terminal..
to see if I can make a more solid better connection... as just trying to bridge those wires using another smaller piece of wire... although it did appear to work...
or at least did appear to do so more on my later 2nd attempt... where I think it did make the motor or something continually operate or rotate if it was the Starter motor.. rather than just operate as one click at a time ...

but it was making quite a lot of sparking across the wires... So I thought that maybe by taking those wires out.. I maybe able to make a better connection to try and avoid the sparks..

BUT I note what you say... and I will consider trying what you suggest..

After what I described in ref to me attempting to bridge the two wires where I seemed to get the starter motor to continually rotate...I now assume the Battery has enough Power.... BUT I have NOT as Yet checked it for voltage.. as at the moment I dont have access to the right equipment...

You make a ref to the easiest way to make the car work... but I am uncleer on what you are trying to describe...

You say to use that PUG..... what is the Pug ?

The easiest way to make the car work is to use that pug, so is better not to damage it too much.

Click to expand...

In ref to the mystery Cable.... IF you also have a similar cable that appears the same as what my photos and description is... then Hopefully that is just normal and the wire was never cut .. but it does appear to have been cut as the white cable contains what appeared as one thin but clear coated wire inside it...

I just hope that it is as normal and is not part of my problem..

In ref to this part of your reply...

I am not sure that I understand...

IF I have now managed to test those TWO (Brown and Red wires ) that come out of the rear of the ignition barrel or lock..

then yes I believe that I have proven that the Starter motor works oK...

BUT It will NOT work just by me trying to turn the key in the ignition lock or barrel.. and this is what appears to be my problem...

Is the problem purely due to the other TWO Front wires that connect to the front key side of the ignition barrel / lock... or where ever those wires go to..

or could there be some other problem within the ignition lock..

OR is it the or a computer / Keycode..problem

IF MAYBE the two front wires ... do go to the or a computer...Are they connecting to it OK when I believed that I reconnected the wires back together that the other ends appeared to come out of that lower Thick Black Cable that I referred to..

Or is the Ignition part... damaged that may somehow work in connection with some other parts of it... in that does the KEYCODE have some part built into the ignition lock that maybe could be damaged somehow..

or do you see it probebly likely that its a problem as to where the IG Lock two front wires somehow connect to an internal computer somewhere else in the car maybe seperate from the Ignition lock area..

If so where is the Computer likely to be ?

Would it be inside or maybe in the bonnet / engine area.. or directly connected to the engine ?

The easiest way to make your car work, is to use your key, with the ignition barrel you have.

In my view this is what you have to do:
Step one is to make sure you have battery to power everything and the starter motor cranks.

Step two started cranks with the turn of the key.

Step three sort out the wires going into the body computer so the KEYCODE function can work, and the engine control unit will make the engine run.

Click to expand...

In ref to the TWO Red THICK wires that are seeming Burnt Out...

I think I did have a mechanic make some ref to them but I cannot recall what he said..but he did seem to believe that they would still work ok..
and was not part of the problem on trying to get the car to start.. which at the time I think I thought that they may had been my main problem.

I have to admitt that seeing them appear so burned out that you would think that what ever caused it has caused some serious damage..
as I would have thought that if the thick wires That I asume take a LOT more current or Voltage...than most other wires ..and appear similar to the thickness of battery wires... that to burn them out ... would have taken some severe damage to do so...

It was suggested to me that a 10 year old Kid did this to my car as the Ex Car Theif claims that he has seem this kid doing the damage to my car..
and he says although hes very distruptive that hes also very clever...

as I could not believe that a 10 yr old would be able to even do damage to my car in ref to what you can see in the photos...

Hes also broken all the windows...

But hes too young to prosecute and its proving it...and I am told his mother looks after him but is a drug addict..


When the ex car theft noted the thick wires burned out..... he also did not suggest that they were responsible for the car not working/ starting as I did point them out or he could easily see them when he had a look at that area..

I will try to reinvestigate more about what there are or do and how they have ened up appearing so burned out..

The thing is however that the other bunch of wires on the lower right side where the black cable comes out with them,,, many of those wires were also broken and some also appeared burned out...similar to the thick red ones... but I was able to reconnnect many of those wires back together either twisting the inner wires or using tape to hold them together ..

crankshaft said:

You want to remove the two wires at the top of the ignition barrel?
Those two thin wires are connected to the antenna, that is that plastic ring circling the ignition barrel. They connect the antenna to the car body computer. But in your picture they seem to go under a relay? where are those wires going to?
Your mystery white wire is another antenna, used to lock/unlock the doors when you press the key. At least in my car the Antenna is white, and is located there, and it looks like a wire.

Are you trying to remove the brown and red wires from the plastic plug, to get the terminals out?

If you are having problems doing that, I don't think doing that is a good idea, you could damage the terminal, or slacken it too much, and create a bad electrical contact when you refit it in place.
If you want to remove the terminals from the plug to have a better way to connect the Red and Brown wires, instead try this:

1. Disconnect the battery negative (black one) terminal.
2. Put a paper clip, in the plug, connecting red and brown. Make sure the clip doesn't contact any metal part from the car.
3. Car in neutral
4. Connect the battery negative terminal
5. Does it crank? it should crank right away, and you could see some sparking when you reconnect the battery terminal. As soon as you observe it cranking or no, disconnect the negative terminal again, and remove the paper clip.

If it doesn't crank the battery could be dead. Starter motor could be broken. But I would put my money on a dead battery. Did you check the battery voltage?

The car only needs the RED and BROWN together to crank the engine, and fuse F3 must be good, nothing more, no relays or anything.
The car will crank, but it won't start because the engine control unit won't make the engine run.
The easiest way to make the car work is to use that pug, so is better not to damage it too much.





This could also be a symptom of a battery with a low charge. Please make sure your battery is good. Test it with a multi-meter.


The easiest way to make your car work, is to use your key, with the ignition barrel you have.
In my view this is what you have to do:
Step one is to make sure you have battery to power everything and the starter motor cranks.
Step two started cranks with the turn of the key.
Step three sort out the wires going into the body computer so the KEYCODE function can work, and the engine control unit will make the engine run.


BTW do you have any ideas why those 2 thicker cables are burned?
They are both 12V+ wires that come from the engine fuse box and power up everything in the interior fuse box.

Click to expand...

I managed to find some other images that show the black cable..

without rechecking... I cannot recall for sure if the black cable was among all the other coloured wires that you can see that were also broken...or if it connected to another bunch of wires behind the grey panel.... that I later reconnected back together some with blue tape if I stugged to retwist the copper parts of their inner wire..

but the black cable was running along other wires...and was NOT totally seperate on its own...

https://i.postimg.cc/y6SmsGdL/Ig-Lock-Wires-showing-Black-cable.gif







https://i.postimg.cc/brNfHnsJ/close-up-Ig-Lock-Wires-showing-Black-cable.gif




https://i.postimg.cc/Ssgv4vxS/close-up-Ig-Lock-Wires-connected-to-Black-cable.gif

Puntog said:

You say to use that PUG..... what is the Pug ?

Click to expand...

Sorry, I misspelled. I meant to say plug. I was referring to the terminals that connect to the back of the ignition barrel.

The black cable you mention, I thought it was something you putted there.
There is only one thick black cable that goes into the inside of the car, and it's connected to the Electric Power Steering. And is not to be connected to the fuse box. It is the only thick black cable in the interior of the car.
Looking at your pictures, I can see that the power steering still has it's shield (the black metal plate surrounding the Power Steering motor, and Power Steering ECU).
Maybe someone cut the black cable that was going to the power steering and tried to connect it to the fuse box? And that's why the the red and the red+white cables in the fuse box burned?
In any case, that black cable doesn't connect to the fuse box.

Try to upload your images to imgur.com instead. When you upload them as gif they lose a lot of quality, and are harder to understand.

Puntog said:

BUT It will NOT work just by me trying to turn the key in the ignition lock or barrel.. and this is what appears to be my problem...

Click to expand...

No. Even if you don't have the Body computer operational, or the KEYCODE system operational, the engine should crank when you turn the key. The starter motor is isolated from the KEYCODE system and should always crank the engine.

Puntog said:

If so where is the Computer likely to be ?

Click to expand...

The Body Computer or Body ECU is attached to the back of the fuse box.

Hi Crankshaft,

Thks for your reply..and explaining PUG = PLUG..

There had been a prior problem with the power steering...that the mechanic who sold it to me later had to reinvestigate for me just after he sold it to me...but I dont know what he ended up doing with it... he initially seemed to repair it but a few weeks later the same problem came back and it was a intermittent fault..afterwards on and off ...

HOWEVER.... when the car got damaged and the wires cut... inc the two front end wires from the ignition.... those wires seemed the same colour as ones that I found within the Black Cable...(where the black cable had appeared to have been cut) SO I ASSUMED that that was where I needed to reconnect to. (IF the inner wires within the black cable are the same colour as those from the two Ignition front wires... then what a coincidence ! )

As for that Black cable coming from the fusebox.... I dont think its actually connected to it... it comes from behind it or underneath the grey panel / lower shelf somehow, along with the other series of colored broken wires but the blk cable is within a series of other wires....

IF there is another position to reconnect the two front igition wires.. then I need to look again as to where they may reconnect to..
if its to the computer then Maybe thats where I need to connect to


when I removed the fusebox or looked behind the greypanel I could not see anything that suggested there was a Computer behind it...so I am not greatly clear where it maybe..I will have to try to further investigate / research into it..

But as you suggest its BEHIND the Fusebox or attached to the back of it (I assume the dash inner fusebox on the grey panel )..

But as I say when I removed the fusebox or the all GREYPANEL if I recall...after I had pulloed out all the various WIRE Bunches / connectors out of the greypanel....

I just dont think thatI noted if there was anything attached to it that resembled a computer or ECU....

I will have to try and look again and see if there is also any place to attach the Two Ignition Front wires...is what I think I need to try again next...

It will be so annoying if I later find some obvious connection that I can connect to that I had not noticed..

but I assume it is NOT obvious for a novice like me to be able to just visually see it from the grey panel alone when looking at it as in the images that I posted when its positioned in place...as it is at present..

THE THING MAYBE.... IS CAN I FIND OR CONNECT THE WIRES TO THE COMPUTER ECU WITHOUT TAKING OUT THE GREYPANEL ? FUSEBOX ? maybe by trying to connect the wires from underneath the Greypanel or fusebox

or should there be a connection at the front of the grey panel/ fusebox ???

or is it possible that some part has been removed or broken or pulled out that normally would be visible at the front of the grey panel thatI can connect the Ig Front wires to ??? maybe ...

some things do seem to be removed of that grey panel !

https://i.postimg.cc/VvWt9Mrd/20190603-123129.jpg

No. Even if you don't have the Body computer operational, or the KEYCODE system operational, the engine should crank when you turn the key. The starter motor is isolated from the KEYCODE system and should always crank the engine.


The Body Computer or Body ECU is attached to the back of the fuse box.

Click to expand...

I am also unsure why the cars ignition does stil not turn the engine unless the keycode has been corrupted somehow or broken or maybe I still have not reconnectd those two front wires correctly .(maybe to the computer ). but where they may go to exactly ...I am unsure at the moment..

WHEN I Attempt to turn the Car Ignition Key .. there MAYBE a noise that could be say just ONE intermittent Click at a time...but I dont think it happens every time I try it... BUT it certainly is NOT continually operating (what I assume is the starter motor ) like if I connect the Red and Brown wires together the wires from the back of the ignition.....

in ref to why I posted some gifs.. it was down to a very slow internet connection that I had on the day unfortunately and gifs was the on;y way that I was able to upload any images at that or those days / time..

I will try to getto a better connection for others....in the future but sometimes posting a gif at the time maybe better than posting no image at all...
on those occasions..

crankshaft said:

Sorry, I misspelled. I meant to say plug. I was referring to the terminals that connect to the back of the ignition barrel.

The black cable you mention, I thought it was something you putted there.
There is only one thick black cable that goes into the inside of the car, and it's connected to the Electric Power Steering. And is not to be connected to the fuse box. It is the only thick black cable in the interior of the car.
Looking at your pictures, I can see that the power steering still has it's shield (the black metal plate surrounding the Power Steering motor, and Power Steering ECU).
Maybe someone cut the black cable that was going to the power steering and tried to connect it to the fuse box? And that's why the the red and the red+white cables in the fuse box burned?
In any case, that black cable doesn't connect to the fuse box.

Try to upload your images to imgur.com instead. When you upload them as gif they lose a lot of quality, and are harder to understand.



No. Even if you don't have the Body computer operational, or the KEYCODE system operational, the engine should crank when you turn the key. The starter motor is isolated from the KEYCODE system and should always crank the engine.


The Body Computer or Body ECU is attached to the back of the fuse box.

Click to expand...

I dont know if anyone has found this online manual useful..

But It does not seem like the haynes manual

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/613434/Fiat-Punto.html

are these wire diagrams helful in trying to work out where the computer maybe.. I wonder..

but I am not greatly familiar with the details or Key in trying to decipher what each item is on such diagrams...

such as what is FDU BSM, ECM ? is one of these the Computer / Ignition or keycode ?

I assume ECM is the Engine control unit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_control_unit


https://i.postimg.cc/J7Z0f12z/Fiat-Punto-wire-diagram.png

Have skimmed this post and wondering to myself why you've not scrapped it.

The car as pointed out is very old now ~17 years and the car has been vanadalised, you didn't mention how they got in but it would be unusual to be able to damage the ignition without damaging the locks or windows in some way.

Its been standing for a long while so is likely damp, its also an old italian car living in the UK meaning that its only a matter of time before nature turns it back into iron ore that it was once made from seriously if its not already significantly corroded underneath I'd be amazed.

While you feel the engine is worth £100 and it might be, the car its self has to be stored, will need to be repaired will need taxing and MOTing at some point in the future and again if its stood its likely that MOT bill will be enormous. If you have the means to take the engine out and sell it yourself by all means do so but if you do not then its pointless saying its worth £100 if you have to pay someone £100 or more to take it out.

This car is a money pit and is only going to keep costing a fortune, money which you say you simply don't have at all at the moment. Scrap it !!

Also This car in the condition it is and Sorn cannot in any way be driven anywhere on the roads. It is totally illegal for it to set a wheel on the highway and who knows what other problems it may have making it dangerous on the roads (like seized brakes) If you can't afford the car then you can't afford the fines if you get caught, can you afford repairs to someone elses car if you have an accident??

Scrap it and do the world a favour.

You are then free to focus on getting back into work or sorting what ever is holding you back at the moment, then once back on your feet you can buy a newer car for a couple of hundred quid with an MOT on it.

Scrap it, Scrap it, Scrap it and stop wasting your time on it.

Sorry I understood you wrong. When you say thick black cable, I thought of the cable carrying power. But you are talking about a black cable sleeve, right?

Puntog said:

But as you suggest its BEHIND the Fusebox or attached to the back of it (I assume the dash inner fusebox on the grey panel )..
I just dont think thatI noted if there was anything attached to it that resembled a computer or ECU....

Click to expand...

That's the Body ECU. It's almost like part of the fuse box, but in reality is just connected to it. You can separate both of them.

Puntog said:

I am also unsure why the cars ignition does stil not turn the engine unless the keycode has been corrupted somehow or broken or maybe I still have not reconnectd those two front wires correctly .(maybe to the computer ). but where they may go to exactly ...I am unsure at the moment..

WHEN I Attempt to turn the Car Ignition Key .. there MAYBE a noise that could be say just ONE intermittent Click at a time...but I dont think it happens every time I try it... BUT it certainly is NOT continually operating (what I assume is the starter motor ) like if I connect the Red and Brown wires together the wires from the back of the ignition.....

in ref to why I posted some gifs.. it was down to a very slow internet connection that I had on the day unfortunately and gifs was the on;y way that I was able to upload any images at that or those days / time..

I will try to getto a better connection for others....in the future but sometimes posting a gif at the time maybe better than posting no image at all...
on those occasions..

Click to expand...

You should make sure that the battery is ok.
Yes, you are right, is better to have poor quality ones than no picture at all.

Davren said:

Assume you charged the battery as the car has not been used for months?

Click to expand...

Davren said:

Typical symptom of an insufficiently charged battery.

Click to expand...

nikrox said:

The battery may hold a charge BUT not have enough amps to turn the starter motor over..and hence the big old lump of the motor... A battery has really got to be your first investment.

Click to expand...

crankshaft said:

You should make sure that the battery is ok.

Click to expand...

Puntog said:

I did charge the battery before I attempted to restart the car. Although the battery is an old one and would struggle to hold its charge

Click to expand...

Battery seems to be a recurring theme here. An old battery that has been discharged for a long time will never fully recover.

You can not fully test a battery with just a voltmeter, you need a high rate discharge tester to test it with. A new battery is less expensive than a high rate discharge tester.
.

Bit of a catch 22 BUT Halfords do a free test using Yuasa kit.
My local breakers sell batteries that are gaurenteed for three months. Aound £20 ,plus you get £5 back off when you give them your old battery.

nikrox said:

Bit of a catch 22 BUT Halfords do a free test using Yuasa kit.
My local breakers sell batteries that are gaurenteed for three months.

Click to expand...

Never trust a battery from a breakers. You won't know how old it is, or it's condition. Yes... they say it's guaranteed, but when you take it back, they will just give you another old battery that you won't know the age or condition of.
.

To be fair I have used this breakers,Albert Looms in Derby for 37 years. Never had a problem with them.
I bought a battery off them,Yuasa,for another car I have that is sat on my drive whilst I work on it prior to selling.
I do however buy new,and the 'best'make I can afford when I buy one for my daily drive.

On this post I am short of time to fully explain the images below but hope to do so later in another post.

But basically I decided to try and take out the Fusebox and look for the computer and also try to check where other various wires that we have been
discussing may come from or if I coud find other areas to connect the Two Front Ignition wires to (That I believed was to the wires in the Black Cable )..

As you can see I have take some photos of the stages that I went thru and I have uploaded the images with some descriptions to them..
sorry if some are out of order.... I had a few issues trying to ipload some of them...that messed things up..and its hard to alter them once I got the images to show up in the post...as sometimes I end up deleting the images..

It seems that the Thick Black cable was actually only left as a short piece that was sticking out...
BUT that I found does actualy connect to a Light Blue Lower connector on the low right hand side of the fusebox..

So I do Think that is the right wires to reconnect the broken halfs to....

I managed to find the Computer at the back of the fusebox...and found the connections that go into the rear of it...

It seems also that the connectors / Wire bunchs at the front of the Fusebox / Greypanel... are some connections to both the fusebox and greypanel / and Computer EDU..

So I do not think that the Black cable was anything to do with the power Steering as I think that Crankshaft has now since explained..

After doing what I did yesterday...and replacing everying back in place and I think I now have a better further understanding whee some of the wires etc go to (Although overall its still quite complex trying to now recall again afterwards...as there seems such a lot to it...for my mind to recall in proper full detail )...

I do think overall the wires seemed OK apart from the broken ones that I have indicated and the Two Thick red ones that are part burned out..

BUT WHY the Car will still NOT restart.... I am still Unsure...

The Two Mechanics that I had spke with prior to me posting my thread on this forum both seemed to suggest that they thought it was a Keycode issue
if I had managed to reconnect the wires back ok...or the ones that count to restart the engine / starter motor etc.. (NOT so much the broke wires for lights / wipers etc)

BUT How exactly the Keycode has been broke or corrupted... I am uncertain and do not know enough to say...other than guess that its some electronic
or computer internal issue..

When I try to turn the ignition / key .... there is a light on the visual screen that shows a yellow image of a Key that I believe indicates Keycode.. (Speedometer / fuel gauge / Rev / min etc screen )...

BUT that Light does go OFF soon after..and disappears..

I only thought that it would remain IF there was some Error with it...

and thought maybe things should be OK if it disappeared when I tried to trun the key and start the car ...or at least try to to turn the ignition..

So after all that .... I am still left uncertain what the problem is...


https://i.postimg.cc/zBBM8Jxx/Fusebox-and-connections.png



https://i.postimg.cc/G3Zc7NpW/Fusebox-showing-some-connectors.png




https://i.postimg.cc/TPQSzyJy/Everything-removed-showing-connectors-behind-fusebox.png



https://i.postimg.cc/6q4m4MJR/Fusebox-Grey-panel-removed-and-disconnected.png



https://i.postimg.cc/CMZh4YwC/Fusebox-Grey-panel-removed-and-disconnected-in-car.png




https://i.postimg.cc/Bn3JsKHN/Fusebox-with-terminal-connectors-removed.png






https://i.postimg.cc/NjxB0jxt/Fusebox-with-terminal-connectors-removed-img-2.png



https://i.postimg.cc/8CPDfgy6/Fusebox-with-terminal-connectors-removed-img-3.png



https://i.postimg.cc/4dYgwbR4/Various-lights-that-show-on-visual-gauge-screen.png



This image below shows where the main front Greypanel / fusebox main wire bundles / connectors goto..


https://i.postimg.cc/bJwBRzbQ/Fusebox-Grey-panel-showing-wires.png

Puntog said:

When I try to turn the ignition / key .... there is a light on the visual screen that shows a yellow image of a Key that I believe indicates Keycode.. (Speedometer / fuel gauge / Rev / min etc screen )...

BUT that Light does go OFF soon after..and disappears..

Click to expand...

You have the 1.2 16v 80 hp engine?

If the light goes OFF, that's good. It means your key is read ok, and the engine is allowed to start.
otherwise the light would remain ON.

However there are some things wrong in your instrument cluster:
This lights should be on, when the engine is off:

• Low oil pressure light
• Alternator Light
• Check engine light

But for some reason they are not showing up. When you took that picture, you had everything in the fuse box/ECU?
Also, is your fuel tank empty?

Fuel Tank level, Water temperature, Oil Pressure, Alternator status, check engine light. Are this things working ?

I also have thought that the fact that the Keycode light goes OFF after I had turned the ignition key.... that the KeyCode MAY be OK.

Yes the Car is 16 Valve and 1.2 .

I am not too sure why ANY lights would show when the engine is OFF...

or am I maybe thinking when the IGNITION is ON or OFF... but the Engine itself is NOT coming on...I assume lights only appear when ignition key is in the switch on position...unless I am turning other things on that may work without turning on ignition..

YES when I took the Photo as far as I was aware I had put everything back in what I think was the right place... as it had been prior to taking it all out...

As far as I know all the items you refer to are working ok..

If I recall there is a yellow light that looks like an engine that does show up on the dash panel...but I cannot recall what would normally happen with it..

I do have a basic log / hand book somewhere that does refer to the various lights on the dash panel... that I will have to reread to rmind myself what that light should do when it comes on or if it should later go off if things are ok or the car starts..

I think that the Fuel tank does have sufficient fuel in it...and the gauge does move when I attempt to turn the ignition... BUT I will admitt it is on the Low side...

If things were Normal car wise...Would the engine react at all if there was no fuel in the tank ? ie by the starter motor / solinoid turning the engine ?

or would the engine NOT fire up or move at all..

From what I recall i the past at some time when I ran out of petrol.... generally you still experience the attempt of the engine firing or reacting but failing to start..

where as at the moment I get little if any reaction to the starter motor just by attempting to turn the ignition key...just one or two clicks... but NO continuous motion on the motor or engine..

I dont know if members tend to mainly just read threads that they have certain connection / interest with.. as I am sure this is often / mainly the case that most just read what they have an interest in at the time...

but as this thread is specific to Fiat Punto..

I am considering if maybe I should send a few related posts to other parts of the forum...that make a ref to say...

Is it possible to Hotwire old Fiats from 2002..to override Keycode error

or can any one tell me how I may do it ? that is : if anyone is willing or able to explain how ?

Otherwise I think I have now ran out of ideas or any alternatives as to what may make the car start...

my hand book does not recommend jump starts or bumping..

Fuel Tank level, Water temperature, Oil Pressure, Alternator status, check engine light. Are this things working

Click to expand...

crankshaft said:

You have the 1.2 16v 80 hp engine?

If the light goes OFF, that's good. It means your key is read ok, and the engine is allowed to start.
otherwise the light would remain ON.

However there are some things wrong in your instrument cluster:
This lights should be on, when the engine is off:

• Low oil pressure light
• Alternator Light
• Check engine light

But for some reason they are not showing up. When you took that picture, you had everything in the fuse box/ECU?
Also, is your fuel tank empty?

Fuel Tank level, Water temperature, Oil Pressure, Alternator status, check engine light. Are this things working ?

Click to expand...

1. You CANNOT hotwire your car engine management system. The car is NEVER going to run by you twisting a few wires together UNLESS the computer is satisfied the correct key code is given.

2. Normally you insert the key and turn the dashboard lights on. After a few seconds most lights go out. So the key code light should come on and then a few seconds later go out.

3. If you have all those OTHER lights not turning off after a few seconds then something is majorly not correct somewhere.

At the moment you give me the impression you have no hope of ever being able to understand what you need to get this computerised car to start.

Puntog said:

I also have thought that the fact that the Keycode light goes OFF after I had turned the ignition key.... that the KeyCode MAY be OK.

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The KeyCode seems to be OK. It lights up when you turn the ignition, while is checking your key. And turns off if everything is OK.
I don't think your problem is going to be the KEYCODE immobilizer system.

Puntog said:

If things were Normal car wise...Would the engine react at all if there was no fuel in the tank ? ie by the starter motor / solinoid turning the engine ?

or would the engine NOT fire up or move at all..

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Yes, the starter motor would crank the engine even if without petrol.
I aslked about this because in your picture, your gauge is at 0, but the low fuel level light is not ON. That's strange.

crankshaft said:

in your picture, your gauge is at 0, but the low fuel level light is not ON. That's strange.

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Light is on in the last picture of the gauges.

Worth noting also the starter motor should work even with the immobiliser/anti-theft/key code system not working.

judderbar said:

Light is on in the last picture of the gauges.

Worth noting also the starter motor should work even with the immobiliser/anti-theft/key code system not working.

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But in the other picture, that light is OFF and the temperature light is ON.

I am just thinking if the panel is communicating correctly. My punto doesn't have that behavior it seems.

Thanks for your comments Judderbar,

I admitt that I am not much wiser as to what the problem is...even after having gone thru the things discussed in this thread and me trying some of the things that I have described.

I am still uncertain if its a Keycode error or if its something else as to why trying to use and turn the key in the ignition....

I was able to connect the two wires out of the back and get the starter motor to react or turn... but when I try just using and turning the key... it does not react or work as I would expect..

After tracking the FRONT TWO Wires at the front of the ignition... that goes to the Dash fusebox / Computer / EDU ... I think that I have managed to reconnect those wires back to their other halves that had been cut...

But if for some reason there is still some error with those wires then maybe thats why the car wont start..

Another problem that I am wondering about is could the solinoid be the problem. such as could that be sticking...

As I thought that I understood.... when you turn the ignition key...
if the starter motor turns... at the same time there is a solinoid connected to it that has a gear cog on it thats attached to a shaft... that gets its shaft pushed out to then connect the gear onto the engines flywheel that has gear teeth on it that in turn then turns the engine as the Starter motor is then turning the solinoid shaft and gear..

BUT having suggesting that..... at the moment trying to start the car with the key is not even turning just the starter motor...
(even though I was able to get the starter motor to function by connecting the two wires (brown / red wires ) from the back of the ignition..)

Also by any chance would you have any idea where or what wires would link to the solinoid... would they be the same ones that come from
the ignition that link to the starter motor... (I believe some solinoids can be somehow linked direct with the starter motor and some are on different circuits..)

But I also assume that the functions of the engine are also expected to work in connection to its timing...where the fuel pump is also expected to pump fuel or petrol from the fuel tank via a carbetta or maybe some more modern method..

there is also the system that used to work with the spark plugs and firing order or what used to be the function of the distributer / points / cam that was in the older cars... but I think more modern carberettas now are used...

So could there also maybe be a problem with either the solinoid or what ever wires connect to it... or the fuel pump...or fuel system..

I also thought that starting systems also worked with a relay...or used to do in the older cars....which I was more familiar with... (I am not very familiar with the modern cars and the new electronics / computer system..)

Some of the lights on the dash do come on and go off...

and as I have mentioned the key code one does come on and go off when the key has been turned..but as I say it does not start the car or engine..

I mentioned that there is a 3rd wire (with the Red and Brown wire) from one of the two pairs of connectors that comes out of the rear of the ignition...

I wonder if you have any idea what function that may have ? or what is does or is for ???

judderbar said:

1. You CANNOT hotwire your car engine management system. The car is NEVER going to run by you twisting a few wires together UNLESS the computer is satisfied the correct key code is given.

2. Normally you insert the key and turn the dashboard lights on. After a few seconds most lights go out. So the key code light should come on and then a few seconds later go out.

3. If you have all those OTHER lights not turning off after a few seconds then something is majorly not correct somewhere.

At the moment you give me the impression you have no hope of ever being able to understand what you need to get this computerised car to start.

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