Technical Thread rod end stuck

[PuntoEnthusiast]

I finally embarked upon changing my slipping clutch, but I got stuck with the track rod ends. Surprisingly the nut came off without too much trouble, but I can't get the track rod out.
Any suggestions?
So far I tried hammering it out, jacking up the thread and then hammering, trying to lever it out. I guess I should get myself a ball joint splitter?

 

[jimboy]

You can purchase a track rod end extractor tool works every time. Meantime try two hammers, hold one on the left & smack the right side as hard as you can, this usually works.

Ah just re read, you need an inner track rod removal tool.

 

[PuntoEnthusiast]

Thanks for the suggestion, I will try that tomorrow. I wasn't entirely clear, it is the outer track rod.

 

[varesecrazy]

2 tools for this..a scissor type..

Works great.. but a bit fiddly..and expensive


Forked chisel type.. neanderthal simple to use.. but could damage the rubber boot.
Cheapish.

 

[PuntoEnthusiast]

I ordered the fork type, unfortunately no local shops carry them. Meanwhile I can think about whether to already order a new input shaft bearing, or to discover I need one after opening everything up (I can hear a grinding noise in neutral that disappears when depressing the clutch)

 

[judderbar]

Meanwhile I can think about whether to already order a new input shaft bearing, or to discover I need one after opening everything up (I can hear a grinding noise in neutral that disappears when depressing the clutch)

Sounds like input bearing for sure. You can do the input bearing with the bell housing left on the car. As Multipete has said there are pluses and minuses to doing it this way (I think only when reassembling) Most of the problems are solved if you tightly tape clean plastic to the drive shaft and totally clean up the top of the bell housing and top of the gear box so you are not causing crud to fall into the sealant when moving parts and tools and you use permatex anerobic instant gasket sealant (you do not need the hardener mentioned on the tube). That sealant will not go hard at all until the flanges are tightened. Importantly, when you put your fingers and tools in the sealant, as you will, or you loose your patience and make a mess and need a rest, you can easily wipe it off and reapply. You need a small mirror to check that reverse link ball goes back in the hole as the flanges get closer.

 

[Ziggy122]

I ordered the fork type, unfortunately no local shops carry them. Meanwhile I can think about whether to already order a new input shaft bearing, or to discover I need one after opening everything up (I can hear a grinding noise in neutral that disappears when depressing the clutch)

Could you wait without ur car while a new one arrives?
Id no
Order as a precaution not mega bucks

Ziggy

 

[PuntoEnthusiast]

Could you wait without ur car while a new one arrives?
Id no
Order as a precaution not mega bucks

Ziggy

It's a slight inconvenience but I don't really need the car.
I'm just wondering whether a worn input shaft bearing and oil seal might be the reason the clutch is slipping in the first place. Is there any way to tell apart from taking the box off?

 

[judderbar]

It's a slight inconvenience but I don't really need the car.
I'm just wondering whether a worn input shaft bearing and oil seal might be the reason the clutch is slipping in the first place. Is there any way to tell apart from taking the box off?

You can see the clutch linings thru the hole covered with the rectangular plug in the front top of the bell housing. You will see the edge of the clutch disk as a very thin metal layer with the lining on each side of the thin metal layer. I know I used an endoscope to photograph mine with something placed on the clutch so I could measure the thickness. A camera on macro should do it.

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/429116-what-wear-limit-clutch-disk.html

That was my original clutch at 230,000km. It was still good for tens of thousands of kilometers when I did the input bearing

When you look through the hole you need to move the engine because of the shape of the clutch pressure plate until you get a clear view of the disk.

 

[judderbar]

I finally embarked upon changing my slipping clutch, but I got stuck with the track rod ends. Surprisingly the nut came off without too much trouble, but I can't get the track rod out.
Any suggestions?
So far I tried hammering it out, jacking up the thread and then hammering, trying to lever it out. I guess I should get myself a ball joint splitter?

I finally realised what you want to do here! Change the clutch. So the nut that came off easily was the lock nut for the ball joint end. I was thinking it was the inner lock nut to unscrew the track rod end.

On my car the track rod was very very difficult to get out even immediately after I had it off and did it up again. However by hammering at the side on that bit that sticks out next to the ball joint both sides have fallen out very easily.

 

[varesecrazy]

I ordered the fork type, unfortunately no local shops carry them. Meanwhile I can think about whether to already order a new input shaft bearing, or to discover I need one after opening everything up (I can hear a grinding noise in neutral that disappears when depressing the clutch)

I got my forked chisel from
SCREWFIX..@£5 IIRC

Pretty sure the scissor type was a Stanley..
Bought a decade+ ago

 

[PuntoEnthusiast]

I managed to get it out by hammering the thread while pressing a second hammer on top.
The next problem is the swivel hubs, the nuts came off but the bolt is completely stuck, hammering it only moved it slightly. Is there some trick to it?

 

[varesecrazy]

I managed to get it out by hammering the thread while pressing a second hammer on top.
The next problem is the swivel hubs, the nuts came off but the bolt is completely stuck, hammering it only moved it slightly. Is there some trick to it?

Squirt lubricant into the hole.. wind the bolt round and round..

Then once it turns easier.. tap and turn..tap and turn

Free off BOTH BOLTS TOGETHER

( as itll
Jam.up under the weight if you remove 1.. then try the other)

Put a long screwdriver in one hole as you withdraw the last bolt..

Itll take the load off the bolt

 

[judderbar]

I managed to get it out by hammering the thread while pressing a second hammer on top.
The next problem is the swivel hubs, the nuts came off but the bolt is completely stuck, hammering it only moved it slightly. Is there some trick to it?

One bolt is already moving. Put the nuts back on to protect the threads. Hammer the bolt back into position to where they were before you started the repair. Then hammer on the nut end to hammer it to where you have it now. Repeat till it gets loose. Then do the same for the other.

or have you already been doing that?

If you are moving the bolts slightly it is worth perservering because if you break them you will need to get a fiat nut and bolt. The nuts and bolts are especially hardened and not replaceable with an ordinary 8.8 nut and bolt

 

[PuntoEnthusiast]

That's a good idea, we managed to get them out already after 2 hours of hammering while turning and lots of wd40. Of course one bolt went out with just one tap of the hammer, just to show how easy it could have been

One bolt is already moving. Put the nuts back on to protect the threads. Hammer the bolt back into position to where they were before you started the repair. Then hammer on the nut end to hammer it to where you have it now. Repeat till it gets loose. Then do the same for the other.

or have you already been doing that?

If you are moving the bolts slightly it is worth perservering because if you break them you will need to get a fiat nut and bolt. The nuts and bolts are especially hardened and not replaceable with an ordinary 8.8 nut and bolt

 

[judderbar]

That's a good idea, we managed to get them out already after 2 hours of hammering while turning and lots of wd40. Of course one bolt went out with just one tap of the hammer, just to show how easy it could have been

Good because plenty of people have ended up with broken bolts. Getting them back in is a bit fiddly. if you have a punch/screwdriver that goes in part of one hole it helps to get the other bolt in. To get both bolts in you need to force the wishbone down about one cm with a long bar placed in the large hole of the wishbone. Have both wishbones hanging - you have to work against the action of the anti roll bar so you do not want the other end to be pushed up.

 

[PuntoEnthusiast]

For future reference, hammering out the track rod ends is a bad idea. I damaged the thread of the locknut I was hammering and now it won't go back on anymore.
Does anyone know what kind of non-standard locknut this is? M10x1.25?

 

[judderbar]

On my car the track rod was very very difficult to get out even immediately after I had it off and did it up again. However by hammering at the side on that bit that sticks out next to the ball joint both sides have fallen out very easily.

Sorry, my text was not very clear. You hammer where my finger is pointing.

You can buy new track rod ends for Puntos easily and cheaply. Even in expensive Finland they are only 9 Euro.

 

[PuntoEnthusiast]

No worries, tried hammering where you indicated but that didn't do much, so I resorted to hammering from underneath directly on the locknut. Looked like a solid steel nut and it survived quite well but the thread was a little bit damaged. Next time I will use a ball joint separator
And like you pointed out new track rod ends are cheap, ordered new ones for about 7 euro a piece.

Sorry, my text was not very clear. You hammer where my finger is pointing.

You can buy new track rod ends for Puntos easily and cheaply. Even in expensive Finland they are only 9 Euro.