So my '05 1.2 8v has given me the lovely gift of not starting for Christmas.. Considering that it's able to backfire after a starting attempt, spark is present - only question is, is the spark at the right moment?
It's only able to do about 250rpm when turning over.
Battery is currently charging after numerous attempts, but is in decent condition otherwise.

brinker said:

So my '05 1.2 8v has given me the lovely gift of not starting for Christmas.. Considering that it's able to backfire after a starting attempt, spark is present - only question is, is the spark at the right moment?
It's only able to do about 250rpm when turning over.
Battery is currently charging after numerous attempts, but is in decent condition otherwise.

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250rpm is about right when cranking over
Its not got a fast crank - only enough to get it moving for ignition to nake it go faster


Is the key code light going out / car with padlock symbol?

Is spark present and rythmic?
Fuel pump priming up when you first turn the key to ignition?

Ziggy

Ziggy122 said:

250rpm is about right when cranking over
Its not got a fast crank - only enough to get it moving for ignition to nake it go faster


Is the key code light going out / car with padlock symbol?

Is spark present and rythmic?
Fuel pump priming up when you first turn the key to ignition?

Ziggy

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No key code light. All looks normal from dash side of things. Fuel pump priming fine as well.
TBH I'm not sure spark is firing correctly, but since I'm at my parents, I don't have all my tools.

Drove the car down (about 120km) on the 23rd, went down go for a drive yesterday, and it started, misfired and died. Didn't start after.

My best guess is that it's not getting ignition signal correctly, if at all, so main suspect is crank sensor. But difficult to tell really...

Spark is present. Dad had some old plugs lying around, so we could check.

Tried a push-start down a long hill. No help there. It doesn't run. It turns engine over, but does nothing else. Engine light flashing, but doesn't put codes down.

i would say crank sensor

flisko said:

i would say crank sensor

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Not the sensor itself. Borrowed one from the neighbours Panda.
If you can give me the pin out for the ECU so I can check the wiring...

brinker said:

Not the sensor itself. Borrowed one from the neighbours Panda.
If you can give me the pin out for the ECU so I can check the wiring...

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car cranks normally?

flisko said:

car cranks normally?

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Yes

Check for fuel at the fuel rail. Do you have the tyre valve there with the screw cover? put a rag over the valve while you push a screwdriver against the central pin of the valve with the ignition off. Check the injectors are firing. They click quite noticably which you can hear with a long handled screwdriver with the handle against your ear and the blade on the injector.

Have you checked the valve timing? Belt can slip.

i would remove fuel hose that goes to common rail and have someone crank the car to check if fuel will squirt out, after that i would check timing, remove top cam plastic and align it with a notch then check if it aligned with a gearbox one

brinker said:

Yes

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The timing...
Remove covers and check it..

Biggest pain is accessibg the tensioner

My panda jumped 7 teeth.. retimed ..and its done another 50 k miles

Charlie

Timing appears to be on point. And fuel is present at the rail, so I'm really running out of ideas now ?

brinker said:

Timing appears to be on point. And fuel is present at the rail, so I'm really running out of ideas now ?

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Misfiring... if its POPPING through intake or exhaust.. then its firing out of sequence

brinker said:

Timing appears to be on point. And fuel is present at the rail, so I'm really running out of ideas now ?

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mhmhm, maybe head gasket popped?

varesecrazy said:

Misfiring... if its POPPING through intake or exhaust.. then its firing out of sequence

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Which leads to looking at the wiring loom then. Since I've already established that the crank sensor itself is okay, it must be either a connector or the wiring loom itself.
Does it start without the cam sensor? I know it runs without, but not sure if it starts without. The Panda I borrowed the crank sensor off, has a GP engine, so can't test the cam sensor from that one.

flisko said:

mhmhm, maybe head gasket popped?

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Metal head gasket, so no - also replaced 30000km ago. Anyway, that wouldn't make it a non-starter. The engine is capable of starting and running on 2 cylinders, and it's highly unlikely that the HG would blow out in more than one place, if it did.

brinker said:

Which leads to looking at the wiring loom then. Since I've already established that the crank sensor itself is okay, it must be either a connector or the wiring loom itself.
Does it start without the cam sensor? I know it runs without, but not sure if it starts without. The Panda I borrowed the crank sensor off, has a GP engine, so can't test the cam sensor from that one.

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the ignition of the fuel mixture should be in the SEALED CYLINDER

if there is escaping flame.. then combustion is occurring with a valve open

none of that sounds electrical..

good luck..but I cannot offer further advice..

its an s and b type subject

varesecrazy said:

the ignition of the fuel mixture should be in the SEALED CYLINDER

if there is escaping flame.. then combustion is occurring with a valve open

none of that sounds electrical..

good luck..but I cannot offer further advice..

its an s and b type subject

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It needs a signal to know when to inject and ignite. That bit is electrical. So if it receives the signal at an incorrect time, it will of course combust at an incorrect time.
I think, that considering spark and fuel is in place, and timing is okay, it can only be electrical. There's not and old school distributer that needs to be placed correctly, hence my conclusion.
I will go home and measure the leads between ECU and cam/crank/coil. After that I'm clueless.

brinker said:

It needs a signal to know when to inject and ignite. That bit is electrical. So if it receives the signal at an incorrect time, it will of course combust at an incorrect time.
I think, that considering spark and fuel is in place, and timing is okay, it can only be electrical. There's not and old school distributer that needs to be placed correctly, hence my conclusion.
I will go home and measure the leads between ECU and cam/crank/coil. After that I'm clueless.

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long shot..:idea:

remove battery power.. for an hour..and see if it re-times better on the ECU's factory settings at power-up..

or did yesterdays recharge involve this..??