Hi there may be a thread for this but my apologies I can't find it.
My daughter has a 1.3multijet diesel punto 53 plate.
It takes forever to start, I took off the leads to the glow plugs and checked the voltage to them 2 have zero volts 2 have 11.45 volts when ignition is switched on, Glow plug light comes on and goes off as it should.
I thought glow plug relay. I cannot find it for the life of me. Heard it was by the egr valve No IT isn't then bolted to bulkhead I can't find it.
Please help as it is driving me nuts. I have checked all the fuses in the fuse box next to the battery and they are all good.
Is it the thing to the right of the abs pump covered with a plastic sleeve bolted to the inner wing?
I am wondering if it is in a different place as this car has abs air con reversing sensors all the add ons I know it shouldn't make any difference but where the hell is it.

jumpin said:

Hi there may be a thread for this but my apologies I can't find it.
My daughter has a 1.3multijet diesel punto 53 plate.
It takes forever to start, I took off the leads to the glow plugs and checked the voltage to them 2 have zero volts 2 have 11.45 volts when ignition is switched on, Glow plug light comes on and goes off as it should.
I thought glow plug relay. I cannot find it for the life of me. Heard it was by the egr valve No IT isn't then bolted to bulkhead I can't find it.
Please help as it is driving me nuts. I have checked all the fuses in the fuse box next to the battery and they are all good.
Is it the thing to the right of the abs pump covered with a plastic sleeve bolted to the inner wing?
I am wondering if it is in a different place as this car has abs air con reversing sensors all the add ons I know it shouldn't make any difference but where the hell is it.

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hi, and welcome,
I'd look /ask in the Panda section..as it's the most common application of the 1.3

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/445904-panda-2006-1-3-diesel-cold-start.html

Charlie

it should be bolted to the front of the battery tray,it will have a black plastic covering on it

How cold is it where you are ? Common rail diesels really don't need plugs if the temperature is above 6 or 7 C. The main determinant of successful cold starting is rail pressure.
If I had a penny for all the folks who had cold start issues and found duff plugs, replaced them and it made absolutely no difference.
Before bothering with the plugs I would do a leak back test on the injectors. It only takes one and the entire rail drops and nothing will fire.

If the glowplug light comes on for like 2 seconds... they wont have done owt...

Its when the light stays on a good 10 - 15 seconds will it help with starting

Most of the time in gb u can still start a diesel without glowplugs and itll be fine...

Ziggy

Modern glow plug hit temperature very quickly indeed and even in minus 12 the glow plugs only require a couple of seconds to get a clean start up. If the light isn't flashing on the dash then assume the glowplugs are likely ok.

The relay is easily accessible just below but forward of the battery.

As suggested above I would consider fuel pressure issues rather than glowplugs

Brendan W said:

How cold is it where you are ? Common rail diesels really don't need plugs if the temperature is above 6 or 7 C. The main determinant of successful cold starting is rail pressure.
If I had a penny for all the folks who had cold start issues and found duff plugs, replaced them and it made absolutely no difference.
Before bothering with the plugs I would do a leak back test on the injectors. It only takes one and the entire rail drops and nothing will fire.

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AndyRKett said:

Modern glow plug hit temperature very quickly indeed and even in minus 12 the glow plugs only require a couple of seconds to get a clean start up. If the light isn't flashing on the dash then assume the glowplugs are likely ok.

The relay is easily accessible just below but forward of the battery.

As suggested above I would consider fuel pressure issues rather than glowplugs

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Hi and thanks for all the replies.
Temp here is about 5-6 I will have to have a look at the fuel back pressure, How do I do a leak back test with out the equipment? Will have to source a way.
I just found it very strange that only two of the four glow plugs lead actually work. Haven't taken the glow plugs out and checked if they glow yet as 9mm socket was to big and 8mm was to small.
I thought glow plug problem as when the car has been running for a few minutes and stopped as long as it isn't left for a few hours it starts again no problem. Fuel pressure could be a possibility thinking about it as when it is turned over for about 3 minutes it starts ok, all that cranking has built up the pressure I suppose.
Thanks again people greatly appreciated, the wife has the same car so swapping bits to see if it cures it is a possibility.

Leak back test here
Can't find a Fiat specific one, yet
Four bottles and some tube and see how much leaks from each injector after a minute at idle.
A bad one is obvious. 40 ml is generally accepted as a ball park max acceptable leak rate.
What you describe is consistent with a leaky injector. Usually it is the first start of the day that causes all the problems.

Brendan W said:

Leak back test here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbQhKjj6jis
Can't find a Fiat specific one, yet
Four bottles and some tube and see how much leaks from each injector after a minute at idle.
A bad one is obvious. 40 ml is generally accepted as a ball park max acceptable leak rate.
What you describe is consistent with a leaky injector. Usually it is the first start of the day that causes all the problems.

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His Cheap setup as a joke - would of cost him like £10, vs a garage which probably spent like 80-100 for it all...

Those Small Bottles for shampoo availible from Primark - would also make good cheap bottles todo a leak off

Ziggy

for the record
the circuit for the glow worms does all 4 so its basic that if theres no power to two gloworms then theres a wiring issue
i personally would only recommend removing these gloworms as a last resort because once they've been in a while they prefer to break in the head than come out which means its off with its head and timing chain off,not something you do while whistling in the wind and having a nice cup of brooke bonds
so to con- firm
check with a 12 volt 21 watt bulb by removing each push on glow plug connector one at a time and place bulb between connector and a good earth
get friend/ lover /hateful neighbour to put ignition to setting 2 ,light should come on,if not you have a problem
further
i had exactly the same punto with exactly same problem
if you read this and still have issues after checking all the above posts then get back and i will tell you how i cured mine

s and b said:

for the record
the circuit for the glow worms does all 4 so its basic that if theres no power to two gloworms then theres a wiring issue
i personally would only recommend removing these gloworms as a last resort because once they've been in a while they prefer to break in the head than come out which means its off with its head and timing chain off,not something you do while whistling in the wind and having a nice cup of brooke bonds
so to con- firm
check with a 12 volt 21 watt bulb by removing each push on glow plug connector one at a time and place bulb between connector and a good earth
get friend/ lover /hateful neighbour to put ignition to setting 2 ,light should come on,if not you have a problem
further
i had exactly the same punto with exactly same problem
if you read this and still have issues after checking all the above posts then get back and i will tell you how i cured mine

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Hi and thanks I haven't had chance to do the leak back check yet but will be doing. I have done it before but I haven't got the kit anymore so off to local cheap shop for a few bottles I have plenty of airline from an aquarium so sorted soon.
I have used a volt meter on the glow plug wires and two have zero voltage when the ignition is turned on. Two work fine with 11.4 volts which makes me agree wiring problem or relay. I am not so sure it is an injector as when it starts it runs perfect and if it had a dodgy injector I am sure it would cause problems when running. Still going to check though.
I know the glow plugs can be a pain to get out sometimes but I decided to buy some new ones and have access to oxy bottles to warm the old ones at the base for easier removal, obviously don't care if they get wrecked as there being replaced. Soon as I have done all of the above I will report back hopefully with good news.
Thanks again for your time people.

jumpin said:

Hi and thanks I haven't had chance to do the leak back check yet but will be doing. I have done it before but I haven't got the kit anymore so off to local cheap shop for a few bottles I have plenty of airline from an aquarium so sorted soon.
I have used a volt meter on the glow plug wires and two have zero voltage when the ignition is turned on. Two work fine with 11.4 volts which makes me agree wiring problem or relay. I am not so sure it is an injector as when it starts it runs perfect and if it had a dodgy injector I am sure it would cause problems when running. Still going to check though.
I know the glow plugs can be a pain to get out sometimes but I decided to buy some new ones and have access to oxy bottles to warm the old ones at the base for easier removal, obviously don't care if they get wrecked as there being replaced. Soon as I have done all of the above I will report back hopefully with good news.
Thanks again for your time people.

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Starting and running are 2 very different states and very different running pressures

When cranking at 400rpm, the pump is only just giving em what the injectors needs - so a weak / leaky injector is just causing loss of pressure

When running at 800rpm/1000rpm, its much better and the leak off isn't as bad as there is then sufficient fuel for each injector

ziggy

Ziggy122 said:

Starting and running are 2 very different states and very different running pressures

When cranking at 400rpm, the pump is only just giving em what the injectors needs - so a weak / leaky injector is just causing loss of pressure

When running at 800rpm/1000rpm, its much better and the leak off isn't as bad as there is then sufficient fuel for each injector

ziggy

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Hi folks so I did the leak off test and all good only a small amount of fuel in bottles and all very near the same amount only a small amount really.
So I whipped off the glow plug relay and swapped it with the one off the wife's car and it started a lot quicker but not instantly. I removed the glow plugs and they came out ok with a bit of warmth (oxy/acetylene) around them and tested them and get this- the two which had voltage to them in the first place didn't work and the two which had no voltage worked ok aarrrggghhh cars. So I replaced all 4 and now the car starts on the button so I put the relay back on the wife's car bought a new one for daughter and it's sorted. I have chucked in a good measure of redex and filled the tank with Shell v-power nitro fuel as I know she puts the cheapest super market diesel in it.
Now the wipers have stopped working so a quick voltage check and the wiper motor has died. One on the way from ebay.
Thank you all for assisting me in the cars problems it is very appreciated.

Thanks for coming back to close the loop.
You didn't thrash it with the branch of a tree - doesn't work anyway

Brendan W said:

Thanks for coming back to close the loop.
You didn't thrash it with the branch of a tree - doesn't work anyway

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I was tempted to give it a thrashing.
Thanks again people.