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Old 07-01-2014   #1
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Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

Hi well of late been looking about for conversion possibilities and yesterday chanced upon one, i have a 1.8 Tspark alfa, 140bhp and effortless to drive

bit of reserach tells me that fiat used the alfa bottom end yet didnt use the top end therefore lacking the power also explains why a punto HGT i drove felt nowhere near as good as the much bigger 156 i have...

Did the HGT use the alfa box?
and poss shafts?
any shell/engine mount position differences on HGT compared to 1.2 8v

anyone seen or have proof of this conversion being done?

Thankyou in advance

Wayne
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Old 07-01-2014   #2
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

I'm sure it's do-able, but Mk2 is canbus (who came up with that stupid idea? I want to kick them hard!) which may pose issues.

Mk1 would be easier: FIAT even did a 1 off one with an Integrale engine and drivechain.
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Old 07-01-2014   #3
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
I'm sure it's do-able, but Mk2 is canbus (who came up with that stupid idea? I want to kick them hard!) which may pose issues.

Mk1 would be easier: FIAT even did a 1 off one with an Integrale engine and drivechain.
Id be using full 156 loom, clocks and ecu set upto the doors

way i figure it is if im right on the parts used i can

Use a base 1.2 8v punto Go ive seen locally with running issues
HGT engine mounts
HGT shafts
HGT cooling pipes

therefore in and mounted in a day..

had thought of mk1 but tbh theres no resale there, everyone wants a GT and nowt else having borught and sold a couple of sportings, shame cu i think theyre alot more of a 'warm hatch' than the rather bigger, heavier mk2

Wayne
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Last edited by The younger modder; 07-01-2014 at 05:01.
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Old 14-01-2014   #4
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

No more ideas/interest on this one? wheres the sense of advernture gone on here these days?
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Old 14-01-2014   #5
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

Quote Originally Posted by The younger modder View Post
No more ideas/interest on this one? wheres the sense of advernture gone on here these days?

The following reasons

Insurance companies
DVLA / VOSA
Rozzers
Insurance Biting you again
Money
Oh and to add it again, the MOT man acting on behalf of vosa

Ziggy
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Old 14-01-2014   #6
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

Ive got to say ive used this forum as with many other forums and thats not the reply i would expect of here which like Alfaowner and migweb etc, this USED to be quite a hands on site not a keep it standard and polish it kind of place but hey, times change i suppose

a decat pipe on a 1.2 8v Punto would be an MOT fail, a Vosa inpsection fail, an insurance claim refusal if not declared etc etc so your argument is in no way relavant.

Wayne
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Old 14-01-2014   #7
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

you will be better off with a hgt as the base, you will already have the better brakes and suspension then.

oh and forget resale you will never get back the time n money
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Old 14-01-2014   #8
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

Quote Originally Posted by The younger modder View Post
Ive got to say ive used this forum as with many other forums and thats not the reply i would expect of here which like Alfaowner and migweb etc, this USED to be quite a hands on site not a keep it standard and polish it kind of place but hey, times change i suppose

a decat pipe on a 1.2 8v Punto would be an MOT fail, a Vosa inpsection fail, an insurance claim refusal if not declared etc etc so your argument is in no way relavant.

Wayne
what you are proposing would basically never get insurance approval would be frowned upon by dvla as you are changing the engine hence taxation class necessitating a full iva check
the days of nailing a large engine in an old shed are gone if you want to stay legal
thats how it is and i was a firm follower of blydstein

http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/vauxh...sses-away.html
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Old 14-01-2014   #9
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

I doubt that changing the engine alone would bring on an IVA. Can't see any reason whatsoever that it would not get specialist insurance (run it by them?). I think, though, that it would need a cat -- doesn't it go by car, rather than engine? Mk2 is Euro 4, but you can't even get a Cinq through a MOT sans cat.

AFAIK, the HGT did use an Alfa box (the same one the 500 Abarth is still using) -- same box as 155, etc. from memory.

I'd check it out and go for it. Lots of bitter old women in the Mk2 Punto section, but you really can't post in the Cinq/Sei section.
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Old 14-01-2014   #10
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
I doubt that changing the engine alone would bring on an IVA. Can't see any reason whatsoever that it would not get specialist insurance (run it by them?). I think, though, that it would need a cat -- doesn't it go by car, rather than engine? Mk2 is Euro 4, but you can't even get a Cinq through a MOT sans cat.

AFAIK, the HGT did use an Alfa box (the same one the 500 Abarth is still using) -- same box as 155, etc. from memory.

I'd check it out and go for it. Lots of bitter old women in the Mk2 Punto section, but you really can't post in the Cinq/Sei section.
i explained why in my post
have you ever actually sent changes off to the dvla?
i have and trust me they always follow up with some standardised letter explaining what you have to do next
i often ,indeed always find modified cars these days never have the v5c up to date
so if you refer to me as a bitter old woman because i explain the truth before someone gets a rap for an unroadworthy modified car because it doesn't have european type approval then so be it
this isnt the 70's and eighties anymore
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Old 14-01-2014   #11
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

We have fully declared 1.4 Cinqs in the "other place". I agree about the decat.

The IVA is essentially a points system (as to whether you need one or not) -- if it does need an IVA (unlikely, but maybe best asked on Piston Heads) cost is the only "real" issue, and a "real" insurer will probably discount anything that has an IVA (it's a kit car, innit?).

But yes, it should be declared, above board, and legal.

Really, it's just an HGV with a different cylinder head.
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Old 14-01-2014   #12
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
Really, it's just an HGV with a different cylinder head.
wont he need to take a HGV test then?
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Old 14-01-2014   #13
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
wont he need to take a HGV test then?
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Old 15-01-2014   #14
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
you will be better off with a hgt as the base, you will already have the better brakes and suspension then.
I had thought of this Dave but to be honest the spec of them isnt that much of an improvement, a magazine article i have of when they first came out only lists, stiffer suspension (so a Apex kit would do same) a thicker anti roll bar (available on ebay if needed) and vented front brakes which the alfa has so would be trying to swap them

Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
oh and forget resale you will never get back the time n money
Time shouldnt be much and as spares is now my job again it shouldnt be much BUT im severely put off by lack of interest, if i was doing this into a Cinq in the cinq and sei section theyre would be 10 people jumping in and showing interest as you know

Quote Originally Posted by s and b View Post
what you are proposing would basically never get insurance approval would be frowned upon by dvla as you are changing the engine hence taxation class necessitating a full iva check
the days of nailing a large engine in an old shed are gone if you want to stay legal
thats how it is and i was a firm follower of blydstein
1) Wrong, easily insurable with 10+ companies
2) Wrong, engine number and cc would be the onyl thing DVLA would need to be informed of
3) if you think that youve clearly never strayed from this section of the forum and especially not onto other forums

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
I doubt that changing the engine alone would bring on an IVA. Can't see any reason whatsoever that it would not get specialist insurance (run it by them?). I think, though, that it would need a cat -- doesn't it go by car, rather than engine? Mk2 is Euro 4, but you can't even get a Cinq through a MOT sans cat.
As above it wouldnt, A cat is easily doable, remember the 156 makes 144ish standard so even transplanting the lot it would be a substantial gain

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
AFAIK, the HGT did use an Alfa box (the same one the 500 Abarth is still using) -- same box as 155, etc. from memory.

I'd check it out and go for it. Lots of bitter old women in the Mk2 Punto section, but you really can't post in the Cinq/Sei section.
You know thats second time even seen someone say that, but no mention of wether its the same box as my 156, i can get a HGT box but its done 106k and out a write off and not worth the 100 hes asking looking at the state of the rest of the bits, mine has done 85k and is a sweet slick changing box with no crunches or owt

And yes i very much agree unforutunately


Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
We have fully declared 1.4 Cinqs in the "other place". I agree about the decat.

The IVA is essentially a points system (as to whether you need one or not) -- if it does need an IVA (unlikely, but maybe best asked on Piston Heads) cost is the only "real" issue, and a "real" insurer will probably discount anything that has an IVA (it's a kit car, innit?).

But yes, it should be declared, above board, and legal.

Really, it's just an HGV with a different cylinder head.
It wouldnt need an IVA, i litterally would be changig engine and box and making the brakes and suspension upto spec using OEM parts, if i was to custom suspension aall round and custom brakes all round and make it 4 wheel drive out of a 156 crosswagon then yes it would, but tbh why would i do that to a mk2 punto

Thankyou for all help so far Dave and fingers

Wayne
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Old 15-01-2014   #15
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Re: Alfa Tspark in Mk2 Punto

Quote Quote:
Use a base 1.2 8v punto Go ive seen locally with running issues
HGT engine mounts
HGT shafts
HGT cooling pipes
this is your base vehicle
you propose changing the engine transmission brakes and loom
this vehicle goes into a different road tax class
needs dvla informing
dvla tell you it needs full engineering report and also an inspection at nearest vosa iva centre

its how it is
no iffs no buts
ziggy had it in one
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