Hi,

Been coming here a couple of years now, reading other Punto owners' problem-solving tips (always more helpful and cheaper than the garage!), but now it's my turn to show up with cap in hand. Get ready, this is a big one....

Just before Xmas, I cleaned my battery terminals and connectors on my Punto Mk.2 1.2 Sporting Speedgear (wasn't happy with how the car was only just firing up on cold mornings). I did it with baking soda in the usual way, then cleaned everything up and applied copper grease (already had a big tin, but no vaseline).

Since then, my problems have started...

1. The battery died after being sat idle for 2-3 days. Clock display worked, but engine wouldn't start, all I got was faint whine when key turned.

2. Engine management light then makes sudden appearance on dash. Strange it wasn't there before battery-clean!

3. Get free Kwik-Fit battery test, comes up as "74% unserviceable". It's a Halfords battery, still JUST under warranty, so luckily get free replacement. So, battery now brand new! But drain happens all over again after same 2-3 days sitting idle.

4. I order a multimeter, test the battery myself. Battery fine (fully charged) at 12.85v, alternator ok around 14v. Check battery for amp drainage, meter settles at 0.45amps. Ahh-ha! Start pulling fuses, one at a time, until pulling 70amp F1 maxi fuse (main dashboard power) drops readout to zero.

Haven't fallen asleep, I hope? I'm not finished yet......

5. Visible check of maxi fuse shows no damage, but I replace it anyway with new one, but no change, 0.45 drain still there!

6. I go driving at night, realise right-side headlight suddenly not working (all bulbs factory-fitted, had car from new since 2003, never had problem with bulbs before), so must have wrongly refitted F14 fuse (10amp) when checking drain. Next day, I pull fuse, check it, refit again - but no good, headlight still not working. I take out another 10amp fuse and put in F14 slot, but still no change - no right-side headlight.

7. Then, I get in car and start driving. Guess what? Red gearbox light flashing! I wonder which fuse I tested on F14 slot?? That's right! F23 gearbox fuse. Now, I've got flashing gearbox light and clicking sound when brake is pressed. AAAGGHHHH!!!!!

In short, has anyone got the foggiest idea what the hell I've done to my car, before I go all Basil Fawlty and proceed to beat it to death with the nearest tree branch?

I'm now in process of getting full version of MultiEcuScan, so I can hopefully shed more light on it, but I still think I did something to electrics when cleaning battery terminals.

Thanks for reading. You now have my permission to rest your heavy eyelids and recharge your own batteries!

sounds like a mass earthing problem combined with a power drain
something draining the battery and find out why

ziggy

Torrance Of Suburbia said:

Red gearbox light flashing! I wonder which fuse I tested on F14 slot?? That's right! F23 gearbox fuse. Now, I've got flashing gearbox light and clicking sound when brake is pressed.

Click to expand...

Ziggy122 said:

sounds like a mass earthing problem combined with a power drain
something draining the battery and find out why

Click to expand...

I'm with Ziggy on this.... The gearbox problem is often related to a bad earth on the rear lights (usually the cluster with the reversing light in it...) -- in which case, remove, clean terminals, get rid of all the gunk behind the light fitting, refit, and then -- if necessary -- check the earth in the boot....

As to the coincidence with the battery clean-up, etc., I'd be tempted to check that the other end of the battery earth connection is okay (if you haven't already...). There's a big earthing point on the inner, nearside wing -- which again may benefit from removing, cleaning, etc.... -- and, from memory, this is where the front lights (both sides) are earthed....

I thoroughly enjoyed your story... -- and thought it exceptionally well-told! I only hope that this helps.... Whatever the case, report back; and I'm sure someone more intelligent that I will suggest something better...!

PS: Welcome...!

Thanks both of you. I think it has to be the earth. Haven't checked it yet, no. I'll get back with more info tomorrow when I've done a diagnostics scan.

Dont just do the Rear light clusters

Do the Engine bay ones as well
Ie the Chassis to Battery and the Multiplug to chassis
If the auto's have a gearbox to chassis earth - clean that up also

ziggy

Cheers, cocker. The nearside wing earthing point, is that accessible under the bonnet or are we talking wheel off?

Torrance Of Suburbia said:

Cheers, cocker. The nearside wing earthing point, is that accessible under the bonnet or are we talking wheel off?

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Under the bonnet: you'll be pleased to know! (I'd take a photograph: but it's very late...!) To be honest, you can't miss it: so many things seem to be connected to it....

Just started to work on car now. I've found if I jiggle multimeter pin around neg battery connector, readout drops from 0.45amps to 0.02 and stays there. Any ideas? Is this confirming earth problem or problem with connector?

have you tried measuring resistance between battery earth and chassis? it should be pretty low if your earths are good

if the earths are in.poor condition you can replace sections

atom0007 said:

have you tried measuring resistance between battery earth and chassis? it should be pretty low if your earths are good

Click to expand...

Good point, didn't think to. Too late anyway, had to stop, raining. Only had time to whip off rear cluster for a contact clean-up and do same with F23 gearbox fuse (no good, gearbox still clicks when brake pressed) before performing diagnostics and hunting down earth point. Fault codes were...

P1702 - Warning lamp-light (gearbox); fault still present; warning light not activated
U1602 - CAN line; fault still present; warning light not activated
P0135(?) - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction
(I inadvertently clicked "clear code" while I was copying & pasting fault text before I had time to remember it. I'm sure it was 0135). Fault text read...

"The O2 Sensor Heater circuit is faulty; possibly an open or a short to ground. Since the sensor is heated by exhaust gases only, the sensor reaches the operating temperature slightly slower than normal, and may cool down too much during cold idle conditions to provide valid signal for fuel system closed loop operation.
Check the O2 sensor heater circuit and relay, resistance and driver circuit for opens, shorts and weak connections, and ensure the proper voltage supply (usually white wires).
Reason for this fault is that ECU has received invalid signal from the sensor. The fault is not detected now, but stored in memory. Clear fault codes and observe for future appearance of same fault. Dash warning light was activated for this fault".

Didn't have enough time with earth point. Is it small vertical black box bolted to the car below nearside light cluster? Or is it tucked against inside of wing beside fusebox? I've been traipsing other sites for visual aids without success. Two of my mates admit to not having clue about electrics, even earth points, so I'm now less confident than when I started out.

There's nothing magical about earth points, don't worry! They're just points where a bunch of cables are screwed to the chassis. They are liable to corrosion which can disturb their continuity. There is one (from memory) towards car front, nearside, inner wing, in front of fusebox, where a bunch of cables are connected. Haynes has them marked in their wiring diagrams. Other guys here can give you more accurate info.

Cheers, atom, sounds like point I saw near the fusebox. Gonna be sunny tomorrow, so I'll have all day to... mess things up.

There are 2 main earthing points literally just infront of the battery

The Main ""starter and general body earth" from gearbox/Body/Battery

and a Huge Multi-plug - To Body

So make sure the batterys are clean and tight - the body's are clean and tight
And the one of the gearbox is also clean and tight - but watchout for any gearbox ones as they do tend to spin with the Nut - smashing the wiring connector....
5mins with a vice and a new one - i fixed mine with an Alternator Black connector



Ziggy

Cheers, Zig.

Thanks for everyone's help, but I don't think I'll bother with it myself, after all. I'm not gonna start pulling wires without knowing EXACTLY which ones I'm supposed to be pulling. Descriptions are one thing, but without pictures (which I can't seem to find anywhere), all I'm doing is guessing and potentially doing more harm than good. Think I'll just take it to a garage and bite the cash bullet. Besides, I slid a finger against the open bonnet catch to collect some gunk and now the bloody bonnet won't lock down - pops back up an inch. Talk about Basil Fawlty! Pretty much fed up now, I just want the damn thing fixing. No matter how it gets done though, I'll still report back with as much info as poss.

The bonnet thing is a classic, happened to me a couple of weeks ago

Don't go slamming it, you'll just make it worse.

Open it up, grasp the release cable near the bonnet catch, and push it to the left. You'll see part of the mechanism move a bit. Get that bit moving freely with some WD40 or equivalent, then grease up when it's clean.
5 minute job

As for the wires, they are all at equipotential ie. chassis, so there is nothing critical there. But I agree that a pic would be more useful!

The bonnet problem was even simpler than you suggested, atom. There's me panicking about not being able to drive with an unlocked bonnet and all it was was the plastic horseshoe bush in the middle of the catch that must have shifted position then got increasingly crushed and twisted each time I tried to push the bonnet home, making it worse each time. Anyway, I just removed it with tweezers and now have a fully lockable "engine lid" again!

Taking some pics of my engine bay tomorrow, where I think the relevant earth points are. I'd be really grateful if someone could take a look, point them out, then pat me on the head and tell me to run along.

For your delight, here's an image from my mk2.

Ignore all the rust. I've photoshoped that in to make everyone else feel good.



The battery -ve terminal is crimped onto chassis in front of the battery tray (circle to left in image).
Part of the wiring harness is connected to the chassis through a multi-way crimp connector, then a bit of metal bolted to the chassis (circle to right of image).
There are other earth points round the car, this should help get your eye in.

Get a copy of Haynes, or browse through the ePER link above (electrical section) to give you a rough idea where to look. In essence, wires connected to metal shell.