Hi folks,

My trusty Punto is losing coolant and has been for a few months now, as you probably already know (Whitesei, Ziggy).

It's a 1.2 8v, 91,000k on it. It's done 11k in just over 7 months and i've probably done 5-6k WITH a coolant leak, topping it up on a weekly basis ofcourse.

It drives fine and has done for the last 7 months without breakdown, overheating etc, which makes me think that it is not the HG. I will also add that there is no obvious signs of HG failure such as performance problems, white smoke, oil in coolant, coolant in oil, mayo etc.

I tried some radweld in it a few months back and it did appear to slow down the leak. I flushed radweld after a little while and the problem appears worse than before and seems to be progressivly getting worse over time, which is obvious beahviour of corrosion? We had snow yesterday so i'm eager to get this sorted as antifreeze almost becomes as expensive as petrol this time of year at the rate the car is using it...

Anyway, few questions:

1:- If the HG had indeed gone, would I be able to do this sort of milage without issue, providing i topped up the coolant regularly (1/2 litre / weekly)?

2:- I would like to give the car a good once over for any leaks, as there are no obvious leaks. Would anyone be kind enough to list known/common leak points for these cars, perferably with pictures?

3:- The gurgling sound is always present when accelerating in 1st/2nd from a cold start, but will stop away when the engine is about 1/4 of temp. Surely this is another symptom of a leak? I have bled the car as many times as i've took my other half out for dinner. I think that's enough said on that subject.

4:- Oil conumption:- The car uses quite abit of oil, hard to estimate...but using 10/40 castrol stuff, it probably does about 1000-1200 miles/litre. I know the rocker cover is needing replaced as the engine is covered in oil, but it doesn't leak on the ground. Would it be worth spending the money on the rocker cover and how much oil would this save roughly?


Hope that's not to hard on the eyes, thanks folks

1:- If the HG had indeed gone, would I be able to do this sort of milage without issue, providing i topped up the coolant regularly (1/2 litre / weekly)?

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Possibly. But you'd risk doing long term engine damage. Get a compression test done!

2:- I would like to give the car a good once over for any leaks, as there are no obvious leaks. Would anyone be kind enough to list known/common leak points for these cars, perferably with pictures?

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The most likely (non obvious) places are the water pump and the water pump to water rail O ring (front of block, pretty much level with the oil filter). Often you can only see these with the engine running and up to temperature, so, axle stand, front wheel and wheelarch liner off, etc.

Rocker cover gasket costs about 3 quid! add on some gasket goo, and something to clean the mating surfaces well. (I suggest acetone or panel wipe.) Clean out the breather tube as well -- white spiriri or degreaser, flush well with water.

A Leaking Temperature sensor
A slow leak lets air in - it sits on the block
When you run the engine the block gets hot and the signs dissappear

If the gurgalin isn't a HG problem
Its either a leak or a Faulty Water Pump

1000miles to a litre is what....
Min to max mark is 1 litres difference
So thats not bad really

Mines doing far worse.... about 450 at best
Still watching for leaks.....

Ziggy

Pop some clean cardboard under the car when you leave it over night and look in the morning for any wet patches and it will give you a better idea to where a leak is coming from

Rusty sumps "use" oil.

For the coolant leak chemical flush the system to clear gunk and dirt and expose any leaks. With luck it will flood out and you'll know what needs fixing.
Most likely are:
Radiator
Water rail
Water pump

Thanks guys, very helpful info here.

Would also like to add that the car flew through MOT at the start of the month and all it needed was 2x new front tyres!

Myself and a friend who is much more knowledgable than me had a look a while back and we did appear to see a very tiny leak on the ground from around the oil filter area. The engine was started from cold and was not up to temp though so that's why it may have only been a single droplet onto the ground at the time.

I'm on the hunt for a trolley jack to check and confirm if this is the cause and also to have a look at the sump. In the meantime i'll drop some cardboard under it!

What's the name of the Chemical flush you're referring to WhiteSei, is it radflush??

How much would it be to have someone replace the rocker cover also?

Finally, if it does turn out to be the water rail/pump or combination of both, how much are we talking to get this fixed??

Keep in mind that I wouldn't be doing it myself as I don't have the tools or lighting to do it.

Thanks very much.

I can't remember the name of the flush stuff -- youir local factor will have it (Halfords seem not to stock it).

Ask round for a local FIAT independent. Your motor factor may be a good source of information. The seals for the water rail are about 3 quid, pumps are less than 40, but I'd recommend replacing the timing belt and tensioner at the same time which will put the price up considerably.

You're mainly paying for labour, so DIY makes sense if you can sort out a few tools and some lighting.

The coolant rail or water pump will cause a drip under the cam belt end of the engine. It could be either.

RadFlush is the chemical cleaner. Its about £15 but be prepared to fit a new radiator (or whatever) if it turns out to be like swiss cheese.

Rocker cover is dead easy a garage should charge no more than 30 minutes plus a few pounds for parts.

Thanks guys.

I've got a friend who's a mechanic and he's going to get it on the trolley jack to inspect the sump and water rail this weekend. I'll get some radflush tonight and we'll both flush it to see what we find. I will try to get the cover replaced too whilst we're at it.

I would be very eager to do the timing belt but its high milage and it also has a springy clutch, so the bill won't end there. I will be selling/breaking/scraping the car come april so I don't think it would be worth it in the long run. There's also the bigger concern that it could be the HG, or at the very least could be prone to failure due persistant driving with the air in the block.

The HG, water pump, timing belt, clutch replacement would probably come close to what I paid for the car and as much as i'm keen to fix it myself i'm just not competent enough to do it, or can I really do without the car as I need it to get to work. It's just a runabout until I can get some experience/NCB under my belt for cheaper insurance.

I'm paying £2.6k/year insurance for a £900 car, 3rd party - Throwing lots of money at this car is not in my best interest!

Thanks for the advice, will hopefully come back with good results in a few days

If the clutch is springy it wont last long, so is it worth spending anything on the car?

Probably, yes, because it should then be reliable. If you scrap and buy another £900 car (any brand) the chances are its going to have all the same problems.

Head gasket (and skim), timing belt, water pump, radiator (its only £30), clutch and probably battery. It should then be good to go for quite a good while.

Dont worry too much if the brakes are not too good - parts are cheap and access is easy.

Read all you can there are a few pitfalls like gearbox bearing and head gasket upside down. But its generally straightforward stuff.

Clutch has been like that for 3 months , and doesn't appear to be getting any worse to be honest, it's not slipping and will stall in 3rd/4th with handbrake up. I do try to drive it easy when conditions allow to extend the life of it though.

I do see your point and very much agree but as it's an 8v i'm willing to run it until the clutch and/or timing belt goes as there will be no major damage done. I can make a more educated decision when that time comes. However, the problem I have is that I want to upgrade and don't want to continue driving this car more than my first year driving. Therefore I don't see it fit to put large sums of money into it and then sell it in 4 months and be at a huge loss.

If i can get this through to april then I will be buying a £3-4k valued car or possibly a 2nd hand car from dealership, so I won't have to deal with the same problems (hopefully).

I have got the back box and centre pipe replaced, brakes were done 5 months ago along with new air/oil filters and ofcourse an oil change. It also got two new tyres two weeks ago Battery seems solid too.

It would be a perfect little car for someone with the know how to fix up, but it's not for me, particularly when I can't DIY.

The road noise, drive and comfort (or lack of) drives me insane. I would rather just pass it on in 4 months as it is for a quick sale and be done with it i'm afraid.

cgarr04 said:

I'm paying £2.6k/year insurance for a £900 car, 3rd party - Throwing lots of money at this car is not in my best interest!

Thanks for the advice, will hopefully come back with good results in a few days

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It's really in your best interests to get into some DIY on it. Chances are that as is, you'll make a big loss on the car, maybe £200 at the scrappy. Where can you get a better replacement for that kind of money?

These cars are about as simple as they get, but you'll be paying £25+ an hour for someone else to do simple jobs you could easily do yourself.

fingers99 said:

It's really in your best interests to get into some DIY on it. Chances are that as is, you'll make a big loss on the car, maybe £200 at the scrappy. Where can you get a better replacement for that kind of money?

These cars are about as simple as they get, but you'll be paying £25+ an hour for someone else to do simple jobs you could easily do yourself.

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Very true, I feel may just have to put the money into it and perservere with it for another year as much as I really don't want to. Time will tell I suppose.

I work in IT so getting my hands dirty is almost against my faith ....

...but I'm hoping this longtime friend will be willing to do the work at a reduced rate, but he is a fulltime mechanic and it is almost christmas too..pockets aint deep this time of year

I work in IT so getting my hands dirty is almost against my faith ....

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Obviously for the Evil Empire. *nix ops love nothing more than dirt under their fingernails!

Wear gloves.

Seemples! squeak!

In a year's time the insurance on a better car will still be silly money. Fix the Punto for a few hundred and keep it going until insurance gets more reasonable.

Ignore folks who say a sub £1000 car is not worth doing. Look at the costs per mile of a fix against costs per month of a fat loan for a better car. Factor that in and (unless it really is a shed) a few hundred in repairs etc is nothing.

Haha!

Seems it makes sense to fix it now, looking at it from another perspective.

Thanks for all the input guys I really appreciate it.

I can go to a 1.9D vectra or Seat Leon/Torledo in 4 months and insurance will drop down to £1400 with 1yr experience and NCB. Could also change my address and it will drop to £1000, but would rather be legitimate. If i changed my address now insurance would drop to 1400 for the punto, and would go down to £800 with 1yr NCB/experince.

Pretty shocking to be honest.

Colum.