hi all,

i have noticed after driving my mates BMW 1 series 120D and astra CDTI 1.7...that my punto mk2 1.2l 8v has really sh*t brakes lol

the other 2 cars you just touch the brakes and they firmly stop no matter what the distance or speed i was amazed at how fast i could stop the car without bein voilent on the brake.

My mk2 1.2 8v takes ages to stop and if i brake too much i just lock up and keep going no firm braking i have driven another 1.2 8v and same brakes not powerful at all

is ther any way of making the brakes much better??

I have seen some solid grooved and drilled discs on ebay will these make any difference at all?? also is ther any brake pads which are really good or do i need to get bigger calipers??

im guessing bigger calipers wont make much of a difference tho im guessing i will need a better mastercylinder and servo maybe??

thanks for help i really bugged by my brakes now that iv driven them 2 cars lol

Drilled and grooved disks do help considerably. Initial 'bite' which you refer to in your post is greatly improved and fade (when the brakes get too hot and loose braking effect) is also helped.

If your managing to lock up your wheels have you not got ABS? If you haven't then crap tyres will make your braking effect worse because it's still your tyres that have to apply the braking force to the road poor tyres will lock up faster and start skidding.

So in summary I'd just strip them down make sure the caliper pistons are free change disks and pads for upgraded ones and change brake fluid and re-bleed.

ChrisUK said:

Drilled and grooved disks do help considerably. Initial 'bite' which you refer to in your post is greatly improved and fade (when the brakes get too hot and loose braking effect) is also helped.

If your managing to lock up your wheels have you not got ABS? If you haven't then crap tyres will make your braking effect worse because it's still your tyres that have to apply the braking force to the road poor tyres will lock up faster and start skidding.

So in summary I'd just strip them down make sure the caliper pistons are free change disks and pads for upgraded ones and change brake fluid and re-bleed.

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thanks for that mate...and no i have no ABS

so solid grooved and drilled discs will make a noticeable difference yeah

and can you recomend any good brake pads?

I am using buget tyres at the moment just because they came free with the alloys...they still have loads of tread left so i will use them until i burn them down....brakes my discs are fine at the moment but pads are low but will change the lot at once

i heard something about MK1 GT calipers? is this true i can kit GT calipers and vented drilled discs to my mk2?

Hi mate,

Have a look HERE for what brakes can go on the punto. I think your biggest problem with locking up will be the budget tyres. Often in budget tyres the compound is rubbish/ too hard etc, and they're grip compared to a better set of tyres is night and day.

EDIT: Greenstuff pads are good, Groved/drilled disks will help with breaking from speed and help prevent brake fade under hard breaking.

Also dont forget both the bimmer and astra have big diesel engine lumps over the front wheels, whears your punto doesnt have much weight over them.

Alan

wat u could do is jump into somebodys 1.1 Saxo or 106 and take it for a spin, then slam on the brakes, then you'll realise how much better the brakes are on the punto!

Saxo brakes feel like sponges!

a1ant said:

Hi mate,

Have a look HERE for what brakes can go on the punto. I think your biggest problem with locking up will be the budget tyres. Often in budget tyres the compound is rubbish/ too hard etc, and they're grip compared to a better set of tyres is night and day.

EDIT: Greenstuff pads are good, Groved/drilled disks will help with breaking from speed and help prevent brake fade under hard breaking.

Also dont forget both the bimmer and astra have big diesel engine lumps over the front wheels, whears your punto doesnt have much weight over them.

Alan

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hi mate,

that looks like a long list to me lol i not sure which to get if i was to change the calipers lol

and as for the discs will these fit?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FRONT-DRILLED...78294554?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM

i have a mk2 1.2l 8v no ABS solid discs

thank you
brin

Hi mate,

Yep those should fit fine. The 1.2 8v disks are the same weather it has ABS or not.

Alan

or maybe even these...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FIAT-PUNTO-1-2-8v-Drilled-Grooved-BRAKE-DISCS-99-06-/220505787115?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PUNTO-1-2-8V-MK2-FRONT-DRILLED-GROOVED-BRAKE-DISCS-PADS-/300451344061?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM

are MINTEX pads any good?? i know we use them on all cars at work but not sure if thats just becaue they are cheap to buy or actually good quality

EDIT: i think the discs in the first post are incorrect as iirc mk2 1.2 8v has 240mm disc diametre

Hi,

Yep all of them disks are fine. The mintex pads that come with the last set arnt uprated pads, but they are jsut as good as OEM pads.

Alan

When you strip your brakes down, make sure that the rubber pipe from the caliper is in good condition. As over time they can deteriorate, they can swell under braking causing a loss of effort to the caliper pistons.

Eventually brake fluid losses it's efficiency and again you start to loose your stopping power

with any car that has inherently poor brakes to start with, quality replacements are worth a must. Budget / part worn tyres really should only be used by your granny or just to get you through an mot (or till payday) But with brakes, buy the best that you can afford

I recommend GreenStuff Pads.

On the bike I use sintered metal pads with iron discs. They are progressive and VERY powerful and for bike pads last very well. I got 15000 from the last set. Standard pads were shot in 5000. Sintered pads wear the disc faster, but disc costs are not too bad for the Punto, certainly better than £120 a pair for the bike.

The Punto front brakes use a sliding caliper where one pad contacts before the other, so one can get stuck in the sliding slots & braking effort is reduced. Cleaning the pad sliding slots can help no end.

Standard discs are ok, but I regret not getting some slotted dimpled discs. The plating makes them look better and I could have gone for better pads.

At the back make sure the drums are not grooved and everything is solid back there.

Ease the hand brake on slightly and step on the brakes. There will always be less pedal travel but if the braking is MUCH better you need to check out the rear drums. New cylinders, shoes, drums and handbrake operating levers are not megabux and well worth the effort. If the pads still have machining marks you can consider keeping them. Ditto the drums, but any grooving at £20 each best to change the drums.

As already said by others elderly hoses can make the brakes feel mushy. I have stainless braided hoses on the bike but some say they are not so good on a car. Maybe someone can comment on that. They are certainly MUCH more costly but do give a solid pedal (lever in my case) feel.

I used to have a Seicento SX. They tyres were like skateboards and driving in the wet was like surfing. I fitted some Cinc alloys with Pirellis and it improved - no end.

Brin,

Don't forget that in modern BMWs and Vauxhalls, the brake servo is usually very strong, offering loads of assistance giving the impression of strong brakes. I almost put my head through the windscreen on my father's Audi. In my opinion, there is too much assistance, making a good 90% of the pedal travel completely pointless.

A good case study is my mk1 55s compared to my girlfriend's mk2 60s. Both have drums at the rear, both have 240mm x 11mm solid discs at the front. Mechanically, the braking systems are nearly identical. However, the mk2 has far more servo assistance, giving the impression of more powerful brakes because less pedal input is required. In fact, the brakes on the Atom 300 I drove felt less strong than my mk1 Punto. Mechanically, the brakes were far superior on the Atom, but with no servo assistance, you really have to push the pedal hard to get any effect.

However, your brakes are obviously powerful enough since they can lock up the wheels. This would point to your choice of tyres as the limitation. I absolutely swear by Yokohama s.Drive tyres. Fair enough, they don't last long, but even my wobbly-handling mk1 could embarrass far superior cars, simply down to tyre choice. Unfortunately, the tyres were too good, so they kept cooking the brakes. That is the point that you need better brakes, but sort the tyres first.

:yeahthat:

If your tires are locking up then the brakes are fine try better tires for better stopping, if you fit bigger/better brakes you will only lock up more often.
To change the FEEL of the brakes to make them way more responsive and feel 100% better then fit these
http://www.brake-lines.co.uk/car-brake-lines/fiat/punto.html
Best £for£ mod you can do to any break system, your Rubber pipes are old they flex so only like 60% of the pedal force is transmitted to the wheels the rest is absorbed by the hose expansion.
One way i can prove it, is get a mate to start the car grip one of your rubber flexi brake hoses and then get him to stamp on the brakes hard then you will realise how much they swell.
Every car or motorbike i have or had gets Braided hoses fitted just because for the money it transforms them so much!

Make sure you get plastic covered braided hose. Bare metal gets dirty and over time dirt wears the braiding. Can anyone comment on their service life compared to "normal" brake hoses.

You will be looking at £80 compared to £20 but certainly on my bike I would have nothing else. Though bikes cant take the risk of locking up so need every ounce of feel & control you can find.

Braided hoses give no more braking power but they will lose the lag as the normal hoses expand. The snag is we get so used to brakes having a soft start so braids can be harder to brake smoothly.

Good grippy tyres have the biggest effect on stopping.

I don't know about service life, but the inspection interval should be much shorter with braided hoses, checking regularly for corrosion. Many braided hoses come with an option of a plastic sheath. Some of these sheaths are coloured, but I would choose a clear coating since you can still inspect the braiding.

The reason manufacturers use rubber hoses is mainly due to cost, but also because rubber hoses are far more tolerant to neglect. Since majority of Joe Public have no mechanical interest, this tolerance is important. You will see more braided hoses on bikes because they are more accessible for inspection and because bikers are typically more mechanically minded than car drivers.

right this is what i am going to do basically...

*Grooved and Drilled discs about £50
*MINTEX brake pads about £15 (i cant afford the green stuff ones tbh)
*Rear disc brake conversion from HGT then grooved & drilled discs on rear

no point gettin larger calipers or any caliper with a larger piston as the effort is still same on the pedal if anything i would be making it worse with larger pistons because the master cylinder piston is still the same so effort to the brake fluid from pedal is the same and more effort is needed to move a larger piston hence gearing it up...plus servo will be same so same assistance...if i wanted larger calipers then lager master cylinder and more assistance for the servo is needed

Do not use drilled brakes on the rear. Grooved is fine, but unnecessary. The problem with drilled discs on the rear is when the handbrake is used on hot discs. The air trapped in the drill holes absorbs heat from the disc, causing expansion and forcing the pads away from this disc. You could come back to your car finding it much further downhill than here you left it.

MikeSalt said:

Do not use drilled brakes on the rear. Grooved is fine, but unnecessary. The problem with drilled discs on the rear is when the handbrake is used on hot discs. The air trapped in the drill holes absorbs heat from the disc, causing expansion and forcing the pads away from this disc. You could come back to your car finding it much further downhill than here you left it.

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yeh but just image how good they would look on the car haha jokin mate but thanks for the heads up wont get drilled for rear