General E85 / Ethanol in a Punto

[AidanH]

I have a 2000 Mk 2 8v 1.2 Punto Active and I've been using varying amounts of E85 fuel (Ethanol) with over the past few months. I haven't made an engine modifications.

I started with 5 litres of E85 and filling the rest of the tank with ordinary petrol. I'm now up to a 50-50 mix of E85 and petrol.

I haven't noticed any ill effects, apart from a bit of rough running after a few weeks, which I put down to the filter clogging with gunk from the petrol.

If anything I've noticed that the engine is running smoother and quieter, and that the cooling fan doesn't come on as much when I'm stuck in traffic. I also noticed a bit more lower end torque.

E85 is 0.999 Euro a litre in my local Maxol, whereas petrol is 1.349 Euro, so the other thing I've noticed is more cash in my pocket.

Has anyone else tried adding E85 Ethanol to a Punto ?

 

[g50245]

At which Maxol can you get E85? Is it supposed to be country wide, or limited to some selected garages?
The one I go to in Kildare doesn't offer it. I'd be interested in trying it out as well.

 

[bludvl_x19]

What benefits do you see in running E85? Just out of interest...

 

[Stone_one]

might wanna be careful with running it if your cars not suited for it
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85[/ame]

 

[DaveMcT]

The issues seem to be older than 1990's cars without a Lambda and nore than 50% ethanol.

Seems to me Puntos should be ok on E85 (15% ethanol). Models with a knock sensor should get the best economy.

 

[AidanH]

At which Maxol can you get E85? Is it supposed to be country wide, or limited to some selected garages?
The one I go to in Kildare doesn't offer it. I'd be interested in trying it out as well.

I buy it in the Maxol in Maynooth - there is a list of Maxol E85 stations on the Maxol site

 

[AidanH]

What benefits do you see in running E85? Just out of interest...

It's cheaper than petrol by about 35 Euro cents, it's greener than petrol, and it's produced in Ireland.

 

[g50245]

Hey, you're close
I'm in Celbridge (when not at work).

The one in Celbridge is also supposed to offer it, but didn't see it.
I'll try the one in Maynooth - close enough

I buy it in the Maxol in Maynooth - there is a list of Maxol E85 stations on the Maxol site

 

[AidanH]

Following on the success of the 50% petrol and 50% E85 mix, I gradually went to 100% E85 in June.

After about 1000 Kms the Punto started to experience hard starting and some hesitation. I added some fuel injector cleaner and this resolved the problem, although I will probably have to do this again as more residue from the petrol becomes dislodged.

Overall the Punto runs well on 100% E85, but the MPG has deteriorated by 20%. It's still worth it because E85 is 35 Euro cent cheaper than petrol, and I'm doing my bit to save the planet.

 

[DaveMcT]

E 85 is 85% petrol so the economy should not suffer that much. Its also higher octane so engines with a knock sensor can optimise the ignition point and do even better. To check if it really is the E85, try a tank of 100% petrol to see if the fuel economy improves. I suspect it wont and there's a servicing issue.

It might be more "searching" than plain petrol so it might shift old gunk from the petrol tank which could clog filters, injectors, etc. That's deffo an issue with biodiesel I dont know if E85 has similar cleaning effects.

 

[bludvl_x19]

Actually E85 is 85% Ethanol

 

[DaveMcT]

Sorry about that. Got meself confuzzled

This is a handy graph

 

[AidanH]

Sorry about that. Got meself confuzzled

This is a handy graph

Thanks for the graph - E85 which is 85% Ethanol has a lower density than Gasoline, which accounts for the lower energy output. (Although I'm no scientist)

Like biodiesel, ethanol dislodges the residue left over from the hydrocarbons like petrol. Not a big issue with the MK 2 Punto with it's fuel filter for life - also fuel injector cleaner helps.

The ethanol used in E85 from Maxol in Ireland is derived from waste (permeate of whey) from the Carbury Food Group. Carbury have been making ethanol in this way for about 30 years, and over the past few years, Maxol have been taking 25% of their product to produce their E85. Very green indeed, when compared to other countries where food crops are turned into ethanol.

The C02 emissions from my un-modified Punto are from a renewable resource, so the Punto's carbon footprint is only a fraction of that of a "green" Toyota Prius. (The Prius uses it's 1.8 petrol engine when travelling over 50 kph/30 mph). Punto 1 - 0 Prius - oh and the Punto doesn't have Lithium batteries (Lithium has to be mined and the large batteries have to be disposed of when depleted), so it's Punto 2 - 0 Prius.

 

[DaveMcT]

Way hey!!! Someone who points out just what total greenwash these hybrids actually are. Apart form all the metal mining and disposal issues, the energy costs of those batteries must be huge. Given they are better in traffic but when driven in a normal way they are no more economical than normal cars. And still cant beat the best diesels.

Back in the 1990's the USA closed its aquatic species program which was researching diatomic algae for use as biofuel. Lots of links from here: [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_Species_Program[/ame]

What Wiki doesn't say is the report estimated (in the late 1990's) that on investment of $100 billion would allow the USA to cease all imports of petroleum for fuel. Even if it costs double that how much has the Iraq debacle actually cost the USA


There is also research going on to produce ethanol from crop waste. Even though it is a sugar, fermentation yeasts cant use cellulose. It has to be pre-processed by enzymes or other means. But when that's sorted all the waste straw etc from food crops could be fermented into fuel and the remaining sludge is a great fertiliser.

See http://www.biofuelstp.eu/cell_ethanol.html

 

[jorgengb]

Hi,

I live in Norway and I have a Fiat Punto Mk1 (1997 model). I am considering switching to E85, but I was wondering whether there might be any problems due to corrosion. I have read that ethanol can corrode fuel lines if there are rubber/cork/aluminium parts, but I have also found on the internet that cars manufactured in the last years do not contain such parts, since some lower percentage of ethanol is added to petrol in some countries. The problem is that some sites say that this applies to"cars manufactured after 1989", while some other sites say "after 1998". Does anyone in this forum know more about this issue?

By the way: this company sells modification kits
www(dot)fuelcat(dot)de (English text available)
(sorry, I am not allowed to post URLs)

 

[DaveMcT]

It gets mixed up with biodiesel and rubber. Its 100% ok from the late 1990s, but hit & miss before then. Ethanol is more about metal corrosion but chances are from around 1998 will be safe. Cars with knock sensors run best on E85 as it has a higher octane that plain unleaded.