Hi,

I'm finding this forum really useful. Here's another question for you guys. For a long time I've found that my Punto's engine judders (like it's fighting itself) a lot at low speeds (usually in 2nd gear) unless I've been doing high-speed driving for a good while before. It's not like it's about to stall... it just seems to be accelerating then engine-breaking repeatedly for a few split seconds. Putting the clutch down and back up slowly seems to sort it. I'm just coming up to 29k and it's been going on for at least the last 15k miles. I was just wondering what causes it and what, if anything, can be done to fix it?

Thanks

Chris

Sounds like a common fault, it could be fixed easy by cleaning some parts, hopefuly nothing more...we havent 100% found the problem, I should clean my ICV sensor and get back to ya, but never get the time when the weather is nice :bang:

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto/119399-punto-jerking.html

my GP has the same problem, just had it serviced by Fiat, new spark plugs etc,
but still the same problem!

grandenut said:

my GP has the same problem, just had it serviced by Fiat, new spark plugs etc,
but still the same problem!

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What kind of gearbox is it?

luvduvs said:

What kind of gearbox is it?

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a 514 box slightly different ratios to the mk2 thou why does this matter any how

you will find most mk2 juddering and idle problems are actually caused buy the tp throttle position sensor theses can be replaced buy fiat with special tools or if you fancy doing it your self it's not to hard to do with normal tools there is a service news about them ps cleaning them wont make a difference

icv is not active when accelerating and wouldn't cause the problem anyway that relates to idle control problems only althou worth a clean along with the rest of the throttle body as the oil breathers can put quite allot of crap up there if not cleaned on service

if there is allot of oil in the throttle body it's also worth lifting the oil filter cap out and making sure the oil seperator plate has not been bent buy some lazy ass mechanic in an attempt to make them fill with oil quicker

My 1.2 Active Sport Punto has the same issues always has.

rostros said:

My 1.2 Active Sport Punto has the same issues always has.

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change your tp sensor

Mine does this
It also seems to have a "pulse" when sitting on idle which does my head in!
How much is a TP sensor and is it hard to fit myself?
Would it also fix the idling problem?
Cheers

mine jerks abit after changing gear and applying some throttle, sound like tp sensor?

easy to change i hope? and price from fiat for a new one?

My 1.2 8v judders in 1st and reverse, I read a huge article about it on talkforums which stated it was a defect in the clutch design, some people have taken fiat to court and won. There was meant to be a company redesigning the clutch, I've never checked it for a while.

The juddering for me mostly happens when I'm crawling in traffic. Under heavy load like on a hill it's most apparent, the whole car will start shaking itself to bits.

Mr Wild said:

My 1.2 8v judders in 1st and reverse, I read a huge article about it on talkforums which stated it was a defect in the clutch design, some people have taken fiat to court and won. There was meant to be a company redesigning the clutch, I've never checked it for a while.

The juddering for me mostly happens when I'm crawling in traffic. Under heavy load like on a hill it's most apparent, the whole car will start shaking itself to bits.

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I also heard this, and my engine does this also from time to time, it has no patern when will it happen and there is no way for it to go away, only to press the clutch and start off again with applying a bit of throttle
I have 1.2 16V engine, 6 gears
Gonna clean throttle body a bit these days and tell you the results, gonna open a new thread if I solve it

Mr Wild said:

My 1.2 8v judders in 1st and reverse, I read a huge article about it on talkforums which stated it was a defect in the clutch design, some people have taken fiat to court and won. There was meant to be a company redesigning the clutch, I've never checked it for a while.

The juddering for me mostly happens when I'm crawling in traffic. Under heavy load like on a hill it's most apparent, the whole car will start shaking itself to bits.

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Do you have any references for more info on these court cases? Do you know why it did not prompt a recall?

ChrisW83 said:

Do you know why it did not prompt a recall?

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Cos its a "characteristic"

ChrisW83 said:

Do you have any references for more info on these court cases? Do you know why it did not prompt a recall?

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http://forums.preloved.co.uk/fuseac...id-7126/startrow-321/maxrows-20/ee81fa5d.html

If you can bear to read through all 17 pages of this thread, they're in there somewhere.

Here is the quote about an after market clutch, I've had a look at their catalogue though and they specify Punto 1.2i but don't specify whether 16v or 8v:

I should point out that this was originally posted in 2006, so is over 2 years old now.

Hello All,

I have read with interest most of your messages on this forum, and am sorry to hear about your clutch problems. I am a clutch design engineer for an automotive manufacturer called Quinton Hazells, and by chance we are in the process of developing a clutch kit for a 1.2ltr 16v Punto 99+, as well as at the design stage of the 8v version. We require a 16v version to trial our clutch kit. If anyone is intrested in letting us fit a new clutch system into there car free of charge, please email or telephone me on the details below. (We shall require the vehicle for a few days)

In the near future we will be requiring an 8v version for the same trial.

Please contact myself if your intrested and own either types of vehicle.

Regards everyone

Alwyn Haycock
Product Design Engineer
Quinton Hazell Automotive Part of the Affinia Group
Glan y Wern Road, Colwyn Bay
North Wales, UK
LL28 5BS

Tel: +44 1492 544201 ext. 352
Fax: +44 1492 542201
E-mail: [Log in to view email]

http://www.qha.com http://www.affiniagroup.com

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why would they need your car for a few days to fit a clutch

And once again I quote from Quinten Hazel:

We offer 2 different Clutch Kits for Punto II 1.2 8V AND 16V. The 8v engine uses QKT2132AF and the 16v is QKT2133AF. Both use the same Cover Assembly but have a different bearing.

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This next bit is in reference to whether or not it will solve juddering problems. Although one user on the forum link provided earlier suggested that his problems had gone with the QH clutch.

I can offer no proof about the quality of the QH design other than to say we have less than 0.05% genuine warranty claims for each reference (excluding no quibble warranty). We sold 1,605 of QKT2132AF in 2006 and 377 of QKT2133AF.

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luvduvs said:

Cos its a "characteristic"

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actually it promted a service news telling dealers the tp sensor had been updated for a stronger more reliable version and any cars with certain symptoms within a certain chassis range would require it to be replaced to solve judder and running on after lifting the throttle during driving things like that bad idling also

i thought most dealers would know all about this buy now but obviously not(charicterstics my arse)

tools were also sent to aid in the replacement of the sensor

al thou it is posible to replace one with basic tools it just requires braking the old one to get it out

this is all for problems wile in gear regarding judder

as for the clutches well quite frankly the clutches in the cars re prone to judder that is well known the best thing to do is fit a valeo clutch they are very good

the borg becker or whatever they are are s h i t e

fit have paied for a few under waranty but they don't like it cos it could be a dealer getting one for a worn out clutch due to bad driving fiat don't have the time to check the cluthes for every warranty claim so i guess that's why some people have been fobbed of with the it's a characteristic excuse also if people get wind of people getting clutches for a slight judder they may go to a dealer and try to claim there's is juddering you can see how it would get out of hand

another problem with having a dealer fit a new clutch is fiat wll only pay for another manufacturer supplied clutch identical to the one in the car which will more than likely have the same problem so it's not worth the hassle from your point of view anyway

it's just one of them things really live with it or get it changed for a valeo

it is posible to get rid of the judder for a wile buy pulling the handbrake on and trying to set off in second lifting the clutch wile keeping the revs around 3k for a short time like 7 to 9 seconds

then allow to cool you may smell a burning smell afterwards this is a sign you have scrubbed off the material causing the clutch to judder i did it on a car today and it was fine afterwards

but you must be carefull no to koock the clutch to much or the lining may completely fail

Aren't Valeo the OEM for the Punto Mk2 clutches? Theres a fella on the other forum claiming the Valeo clutches are of poor quality and causing all the problems.

from_page_10_earlier_link said:

valeo clutches fitted to the mk1 puntos are complete crap 1change more clutches on mk1 puntos than all other makes of cars

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I realise he's talking about mk1's but isn't this indicative of all valeo supplied punto clutches?

Can you provide the chassis range for the Puntos with the possible TP problems?

The juddering is only occuring on the 1.2's right? So I think fiat blaming possible boy racer style driving is a bit of a joke, you couldn't really wear out a clutch on a 1.2 within your warranty period unless you were a **** driver perhaps constantly riding the clutch, the engine can't generate enough torque to be wearing the clutch out that quickly I wouldn't have thought anyway.

Cheers

Mr Wild said:

My 1.2 8v judders in 1st and reverse, I read a huge article about it on talkforums which stated it was a defect in the clutch design, some people have taken fiat to court and won. There was meant to be a company redesigning the clutch, I've never checked it for a while.

The juddering for me mostly happens when I'm crawling in traffic. Under heavy load like on a hill it's most apparent, the whole car will start shaking itself to bits.

Click to expand...

I had the same problem with my 53 plate Punto. took it into my deal when it was still under warranty (10,000 mile after the first year). Complained to the bloke behind the desk, and he said something about a design problem then asked if I wanted to book it in for a new clutch.

I said 'hell yeah', and that seemed to cure the problem.