varesecrazy said:

I think we all know about the age thing..

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Yup, the Panda is limping along with just a hint of clutch slip just now. A few years ago I would be out there, thumbing my nose at the wind and rain, but just can't do it any more. afraid I'm a "fair weather mechanic" these days! Thinking of entrusting it to that local Fiat independent of whom I have previously spoken, but feel I'm betraying the old girl in some way?

Latest update guys,

I have now managed to get the patient into the garage and jacked up and have found a bit of damage to the underside of the diff.

It looks like a bit of the cast has been knocked out from the inside causing a fatal loss of gearbox oil.

The underside was relatively dry before I moved it.

It just looked like old oil that was covering it but when I checked the level anyway I found the box was almost dry inside.

Don't know how long it has been like this as teenagers don't seem to want to look at cars these days just drive them till they break!!

Anyway, I filled the gearbox up to the level whilst on the axle stands with no dramas at all.

When I dropped it down to move it however that was a different story altogether.

It went into gear no problem which let me move it into the garage but when I stopped it there was a lovely flow of fresh gearbox oil running out the door and completely soaking underneath.

It must have been coming out with some pressure.

I will try to put a picture of the hole onto the post but may need some help with that.

I'll shout if I can't do it and I will add more pics once I get it stripped down.

Cheers,
Davie.

OK I can't add a picture. How do I do this please? When I click on add an image it's asking me for the url of my image.

Cancel that I managed it below. Thanks.

I've checked it and this worked.:slayer:

I have looked where the car was parked but I can't see any bits of metal lying around so don't know when it has happened.

Probably an internal part failed..at speed :revs.. will have gone out like a bullet.

Well done for getting into the warm and dry though..!!

I agree, internal failure.

This type of damage is normlly more than a reconditioner will accept for exchange. Only realistic option is to get a second hand gearbox from a breaker or outright purchase from a reconditioner.

Robert G8RPI.

Thanks for your replies guys.

The part that can be seen in the hole is loose inside the casing so I'm assuming this is the guilty part.

I'm going to order a reconditioned gearbox with a years guarantee from a Fiat specialist in Oldham unless anyone knows of somewhere I can get one in Central Scotland.

I'll order one up once I get the old one out.

Only the driveshafts and the gearbox bolts to go.

Once I get them swapped over and have checked that all is ok I will strip the old diff down to see exactly what is broken.

I will update with as much info as I can along with pictures to back it up.

Hopefully it will be useful information for the forum.

Martyn

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Hi again. The bevel gears' there are 4 of them, run inside a cage which is bolted (or otherwise fixed) to the differential crown wheel. Two, one on either side, of the bevel gears are mounted on the driveshafts which go to the wheels. The other two bevel gears are mounted, free running, on a pinion shaft which is fixed to the diff cage. There are some very good You Tube videos which describe how it all operates. If both wheels are off the ground then turning one wheel will turn the bevel gear connected to it which will cause both the free running bevel gears in the diff cage to rotate thus driving the bevel gear connected on the other side of the diff cage


Don't forget to let us know how it all turns out though won't you because it all adds to our knowledge base even if it's not "happy news"'
all the best
Jock

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Got any recommendations on a supplier of a replacement Jock?

varesecrazy said:

Got any recommendations on a supplier of a replacement Jock?

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Haven't really had any gearbox problems of significance for quite a long time now so I've not needed to source anything more than seals etc for many years.

However "Automotive Automatics" in Gordon street Leith have been around almost since I was in nappies! A simple manual box like this would pose no challenge to them I'm sure. Many years ago they helped me source parts for an Austin Ambassador gearbox (that was a heavy lump to lift with my home made gantry!) and I found them very helpful. Although I haven't been near them in years I would probably feel confident in approaching them if I needed. Other than that there are several breakers - Sports car breakers at Newbridge, S & I Thomson down in Galashiels, Finlayson Auto's in Musselburgh. My main contact used to be "Herby" who had a yard on "The Wisp" but like me, he got old! I think his son now runs it as a car wash?

Like all these things.. the info is out there.. you just need the right person..

Thanks.

All the Fiat:Alfa places near me have gone..

So nothing is simple

varesecrazy said:

Like all these things.. the info is out there.. you just need the right person..

Thanks.

All the Fiat:Alfa places near me have gone..

So nothing is simple

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Hmm, let me think now. Specifically Fiat/Alfa independents near me?

Well, my nearest is Harrison Motors on the trading estate in Jane street Leith. A genuine "old style" small family garage who advertise themselves as Fiat specialists. I like the feel of this place having made a nuisance of myself there more than once. The reception area is slightly grubby, the workshop looks very "honest" with no polished tiles and a slightly "well used" look about it. - exactly what you would expect of a workshop which "Does" rather than "talks the talk" and then overcharges you! I am going to try them for my next MOT and if Becky's clutch doesn't last until the warmer weather returns I'll be getting them to do it.

Then there is McLennans Garage out at Loanhead. Don't know a lot about them but they've been around for a long time. I have spoken briefly with their foreman (I think) by telephone, about undertaking some repairs to my oldest boy's Punto as they are near by where he lives. I was impressed with their attitude and it sounded as if they really knew what they were talking about. In the end, although the prices seemed very reasonable, my son could not afford it at that time so "garage of Dad" came to the rescue. They advertise themselves as Alfa, Fiat and classic car specialists.

Edward Labinjoh Cars in Stevenson Road to the west of the town centre. A very nice chap to talk to. Many years ago I put in a brief period where I worked office based, in the centre of the city. Really, but REALLY hated it! Edward at that time had his business operating out of a string of mews lockups. On my way to catch the bus home I would detour round through the mews and there was often something interesting to see, Like, for instance a Montreal, ticking over after it's day in the workshop (I've always loved V8s!). I have never used his services so can't really comment further.

Hope this info might be useful.
regards
Jock

I had a similar thing years ago with an Austin Maestro, the diff pin made a bid for freedom and that was at walking pace reversing round a corner. And before some smartarse slags off Austin/Rover it was a ****ty VW gearbox! What? I can't say ****ty! What happened to freedom of speech?

VAG ..
would've got me a detention in the 70's..

Aye, VAG had/have a liking for riveting the crownwheel to the Diff cage on some of their 'boxes. It's not unknown for the rivets to work loose, especially if a lot of torque is put through the box. (wheel spinning boy racers etc.) Then one or two rivets sheer and drop into the bottom of the casing, get picked up and jammed between the casing and crown wheel/diff assy rupturing the casing, usually inside the bell housing. The first indication the owner gets is oil leaking out of the bottom of the bell housing. So you think to yourself, Damn! must have a leak on the first motion shaft or rear main! Even when the 'box is removed it's sometimes not immediately obvious that the casing is cracked and can lead to some vigorous head scratching.

PS I haven't myself actually encountered this problem personally so assumed it was very rare, however I see modification kits which contain high tensile steel bolts to replace the rivets are available. So maybe this is more of a problem than I had thought?

varesecrazy said:

VAG ..
would've got me a detention in the 70's..

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VAG? Being my usual thick headed self Charlie, but I don't get it? Or is it an "English" thing that we Scots wouldn't understand? I'd love to be enlightened.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

VAG? Being my usual thick headed self Charlie, but I don't get it? Or is it an "English" thing that we Scots wouldn't understand? I'd love to be enlightened.

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VAG Volkswagen Audi group
At least I presume that what they are on about lol

How do I put this.. VAG

Maybe the 'fix'

Isn't a delivered box containing High Tensile bolts

BUT a visit to the high street

Pack of 'Vagisil'
'That'll do nicely'

chris3234 said:

VAG Volkswagen Audi group
At least I presume that what they are on about lol

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Thanks for that Chris. Yes VAG - Volkswagen Audi Group - I've been messing about with their products for many years but I guessed that there was more to the post than that, and it would seem I was right. The suggestion is, I think, that the VAG, instead of being spoken "Vee Age Gee" is pronounced "vaj" and the product he quotes is used to deter the attentions of a certain speckled breasted bird? Can't imagine how that would have earned him a detention though, can you?

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Thanks Can't imagine how that would have earned him a detention though, can you?

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I seemed to get them for less

Ok . Back to gearboxes.

I am always wary of 'refufbed'
An oil change..and a dreadful respray.

Will add a LOT of money to scrapyard prices.

Personally I would rather buy a 2nd car that ran well. But had other issues.

You will get a complete car for less money.

In the case of MOT FAILURES..@£100