Technical DPF clogging.... need help

[janko]

I have Punto EVO 1.3 55kW with DPF (euro5) and recently i have a lot of DPF problems. First time i had check engine and limp mode i took it to the shop and they read dpf clogged, they tried with forced regen but it failed. They've changed one rubber pipe and clean it with some additive (200€). It worked for about 3000km and again same problem. This time they had it for 2 days, apparently they clean it and reset it as new (300€). Now after about 1 month (probably also 3000km) i again got check engine light. Its funny cuz i drive mixed, city and highway and the light for DPF never come on. Never any worning that it need some regeneration, just limp mode and check engine, when its basically too late. Anybody has any idea what could be? It stared after i made big service at 130k km, so im thinking bad oil or EGR?

Thank you in advance.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi.
Are you resetting the oil degradation counter..??

Will not run correctly without.
Charlie

 

[janko]

Thank you for your reply. I dont know for that, but i think mechanic resets it when he makes regular service. I took it to mechanic again and again payed 300€ He changed thermostat (apparently it was always open) and we also changed oil to selenia and clean clogged dpf. Will let you know if this was the solution (i hope it is).

 

[MrDerv]

Dodgy thermostat could have been the cause of it clogging if it's preventing the engine from getting to operating temperature. I had to replace the thermostat on my last car for this very reason.

DPF regen on most diesel cars won't take place til the coolant temp reaches at least 75 deg C (along with other parameters such as minimum vehicle speed). If the thermostat is stuck open, it won't reach normal operating temp, thus clogging as no regen is taking place.

Hopefully that should sort your issue.

 

[burrowsdeano]

Get rid of your dpf and have dpf and egr deleted from your ecu. It's the two things that wreck modern diesels. I hate both of them. Good cars get wrecked and go to scrap yards because of these two. Governing bodies should be focused on mpg because if that goes up then emissions come down per mile. Dpf and egr are great on paper but in real world they just don't work properly and cause huge amounts of problems for all the manufacturers

 

[g8rpi]

Thank you for your reply. I dont know for that, but i think mechanic resets it when he makes regular service. I took it to mechanic again and again payed 300€ He changed thermostat (apparently it was always open) and we also changed oil to selenia and clean clogged dpf. Will let you know if this was the solution (i hope it is).

You need to be SURE the mechanic has reset the oil degredation counter in the engine ECU. This is in addition to the service reset. He will need Fiat specialist software (Multiecuscan, AlfaOBD or Fiat Examiner) to do this. Without this reset you will continue to get DPF issues.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[g8rpi]

Get rid of your dpf and have dpf and egr deleted from your ecu. It's the two things that wreck modern diesels. I hate both of them. Good cars get wrecked and go to scrap yards because of these two. Governing bodies should be focused on mpg because if that goes up then emissions come down per mile. Dpf and egr are great on paper but in real world they just don't work properly and cause huge amounts of problems for all the manufacturers

DPF and EGR are there to reduce particulate and NOx emissions. and do so significantly, much more than the simple percentage that improving MPG might make. Note I say might make, some MPG improvements increase NOx emissions. The only simple emissions / MPG relationship is CO2.
Anyone contemplating deletion of emissions controls should check their local laws as in most countries it makes the car illegal to use on the road. The level of enforcement varies as well.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[burrowsdeano]

Well my opinion stands, egr is not so bad but dpf does not work in real world conditions. If you've ever seen a forced regeneration of the dpf will see that there is great amounts of soot released when this is done. It's ment to burn it off on a re-gen but simply doesn't work. Why collect it all over a period of time only to deposit most of it in one go when it does a regeneration

 

[g8rpi]

Hi,
I don't want to get into an argument, but would point out thet a forced regeneration is not normal operation of a DPF. When my 1.9 16V Croma does a normal regeneration there is no noticeable smoke produced.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[burrowsdeano]

Personal preference but when you see so many problems with them. The question has to ba asked is it all worth it for the small gain

 

[Thefox]

Make sure fuel level is above 20%. Dpf regen will not happen if fuel level below this.

 

[SB1500]

My uncles new Yaris is spending most of its time at the dealer due to the same sort of issues.. can anyone explain how this DPF and EGR works?

 

[g8rpi]

My uncles new Yaris is spending most of its time at the dealer due to the same sort of issues.. can anyone explain how this DPF and EGR works?

Quick answer:
DPF is typically (there are variations) a combination filter and catalyst consisting of a ceramic core with fine holes plated with precious metal. Soot is captured and if the DPF is hot enough is catalytically "burned" to produce CO2. Some cars (Citroen?) have a fuel additive (automatically added, not AdBlue) that helps this. If the DPF does not burn all the soot in normal driving this is sensed (pressure difference) and fuel is injected into the exhaust system (in Fiats by opening the injectors during the exhaust stroke) to increase the temperature. This is called regeneration. With the exhaust stroke injection method, fuel can get into the engine oil so oil changes and regenerations are monitored by the ECU and regeneration is stooped if the oil has not been changed ( or recorded as changed, a separate process to service reset for Fiats).


EGR is a valve which allows exhaust gas into the engine inlet under certain engine conditions. this reduces the combustion temperature and lowers NOx emissions. Being replaced by Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) on newer engines. SCR requires AdBlue.


Robert G8RPI.

 

[Thefox]

If you only do short runs then the engine and exhaust temperature will never get high enough to start the regeneration process, once it start the process the engine needs to continue running to complete the process. If most of your journeys are short then you shouldn't have bought a diesel car.

 

[janko]

You need to be SURE the mechanic has reset the oil degredation counter in the engine ECU. This is in addition to the service reset. He will need Fiat specialist software (Multiecuscan, AlfaOBD or Fiat Examiner) to do this. Without this reset you will continue to get DPF issues.

Robert G8RPI.

Thank you for your reply. I think this should be erased every time you change the oil, which i do every 15k km and not 30k km as manual says. And im thinking if this reset can make such a problem, then Fiat ECU and DPF are total hazard :S

 

[janko]

Thank you everybody for your reply. For now dpf still works normally (i even saw regeneration working ). So i've change thermostat and also pourd STP 5in1 and i guess for now it works. If there will be any change, i will let you know. Of course in between resistor for ventilator died.....always something with Fiat :S And i've talked to a lot of people here, and most had problems with dpf (from fiat, mazada, vw, audi, etc...) and most of solutions were, to take it out. I also think technology in never cars is beyond what normal mechanic knows today... well just my experience.

 

[g8rpi]

Thank you for your reply. I think this should be erased every time you change the oil, which i do every 15k km and not 30k km as manual says. And im thinking if this reset can make such a problem, then Fiat ECU and DPF are total hazard :S

Yes both the service reset and oil degradtion counter should be reset at every oil change. Unfortunatly Fiat did not make it easy to do or publlicise the requirement. My Croma had two fewer degradation resets than Fiat dealer service stamps when I bought it.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[burrowsdeano]

The reason for your book missing stamps is probably because once dpf came along an oil change was not always part of a service. The oil was only to be changed once the oil light started flashing and oil change re-sets for fiats have been available on most after market diagnostic equipment 1-2 years after it all came about. Also I was in a dealer when dpf came out and I spent 2 days on a training course for it, so dealers were made aware of it

 

[g8rpi]

The reason for your book missing stamps is probably because once dpf came along an oil change was not always part of a service. The oil was only to be changed once the oil light started flashing and oil change re-sets for fiats have been available on most after market diagnostic equipment 1-2 years after it all came about. Also I was in a dealer when dpf came out and I spent 2 days on a training course for it, so dealers were made aware of it

The service record showed the oil was changed every service. Maybe they only thought it needed reset if the light flashed. Most small garages are aware of the DPF reset requirement but they are NOT aware that it is a separate procedure to the service reset on some Fiats. Unfortunately most garages still seem to push the yearly oil change whatever the mileage. I had a big discussion with a Ford main dealer about the wife's petrol Focus last year.

 

[janko]

Thank everybody for reply. For now dpf still works normally (i even saw regeneration working ). So i've change thermostat and also poured STP 5in1 and i guess for now it works. If there will be any change, i will let you know. Of course in between resistor for ventilator died.....always something with Fiat :S And i've talked to a lot of people here, and most had problems with dpf (from fiat, mazada, vw, audi, etc...) and most of solutions were, to take it out. I also think technology in newer cars is beyond what normal mechanic knows today... well just my experience.

Sorry for so many mistakes...