Don't you think it's a missreading ?


It never stays at that -0.4, does yours do ?

Evo63 said:

Don't you think it's a missreading ?
https://s11.postimg.org/6z7cdepqp/2016_10_15_3.jpghttps://s11.postimg.org/6z7cdepqp/2016_10_15_3.jpg

It never stays at that -0.4, does yours do ?

Click to expand...

Note that the values you are looking at are only the COMMANDED opening values. There is no feedback of the EGR valve position so it may not be opening or closing to the commanded position. The value only tells you what the ECU want's the valve to do, not what the valve is actually doing so don't put too much trust in it when diagnosing a possible faulty or stuck valve.


Robert G8RPI.

Then, why is there an actual and desired position ?

Desired = what the ECU wants
Actual = where does the number come from ?

Anyway thanks for input, I just removed the part I removed last and now trying to access egr

Evo63 said:

Then, why is there an actual and desired position ?

Desired = what the ECU wants
Actual = where does the number come from ?

Anyway thanks for input, I just removed the part I removed last and now trying to access egr

Click to expand...

Good question, it may be a calculated value from MAF and other sensors. When I get a minute I'll simulate your car in MES and try to get to the bottom of it. I do know that there is no direct feedback of position.


Robert G8RPI.

Egr has sensor which is calculate his open position. So desired that what ecu want and actual that what is in real excactly the same like with MAF with air quantity.
Evo63 pls my friend tell that if your actual egr position is changing fast in idle? Like from 0,85 to 0,50 and back. You know what i mean?

Can you please tell me if the EGR is that part ?




I'm afraid I made a mistake, I unscrewed a little but something leaked. Oil I suppose

Wasn't prepared for this and now public pavement will stay dirty :x

Yeap it is with orange plug. If you unscrew this not only oil goes out but coolant too

So I have to refill both after before running the car ?

Or is it some already lost stuff that went with air going out ?

Sorry i'm really new to all this..

Anyway I'll remove it and clean

When mechanic changing egr in my punto 2y ago he said that all coolant will fall off. So u need to be careful. Take pics

Could you save boost control too in mes?
One more important thing - DPF. Can u give us data about it? Average 5 last regen km, temps. How much you are driving in town?

It's not so dirty but hard to push out, think I can replug and try actuators to see if it moves ?

You have to push hard but gently.

I think yes but in mes by test site.

I tried actuator

First it was out, then in, then stopped, and I believe, that when it's not controlled, it is deeper in that when controlled (or the other way around, I'm doubting now), also, it makes some little buzzing sound when controlled

I wanted to rerun the actuator but it says testing condition aren't met. Unplugged replugged, remove and put key in but still same error. But I had same thing happen in past, dunno why

Without power, wanted position -0,4, actual position 0,01

DPF Says 56% clogged (last time I checked was 76%, but 2 regen happened since then)
Last regen 180km ago,average last 5 regen 580km ( if EDC 16 soft says it's only about last 2 regen)
Average time 580s
Temps 650°c

I mostly drive in town, yeah I know... But last owner did lot of highway, and I only had it for about 1500km so don't think it changed how the car was

Boost control solenoid ?

Won't test today but maybe tomorrow or sunday

After dismounting
Pic 1
Pic 2

Think I may order new EGR soon, tho I'm not really sure, too bad I couldn't rerun actuator test to record

Did u try with mes tester or put electricity from batt?
My is near 100km in city. 10 km in one direction. I think i need to remove it.

puntoevodiesel said:

Egr has sensor which is calculate his open position. So desired that what ecu want and actual that what is in real excactly the same like with MAF with air quantity.
Evo63 pls my friend tell that if your actual egr position is changing fast in idle? Like from 0,85 to 0,50 and back. You know what i mean?

Click to expand...

So which sensor is this?
According to MES the "actual position is "Target EGR position value as calculated by the engine control unit based on the readings of various sensors."

Which is what I said. A faulty MAF sensor or intake air leak, for example, will mess up this reading.

Robert G8RPI.

With MES with actuators

Well, I thought about it, and also DPF, but here in France this year they are collecting data, and in about 2 years, they will make it harder to pass some technical control we do every 2 year, and people that removed this, could have serious problem so I'm not really sure it's worth it, even if everyone says it's the best option

And also when they remove EGR DPF they can also reprog the car to ~150hp and 380Nm.

I also noticed this :
1
2
Don't know if it could be related but seems it was repaired somehow...

Thing is, I don't know where my lack of power come from, is the car just like that, nothing below 2000rpm ?
I mean with something like that on a road going up, on 2nd gear and ~25km/h, it doesn't catch up that fast, but another car with 90hp did a lot better (but maybe I was going faster with 15"...), I mean, in this conditions, it seems my old 50hp ibiza is the same, at least until it reaches 2000rpm

Then also with no gear on, on my ibiza and other car I tried, when accelerating, RPM would go up really fast, here is seems to be regulated or smt, thought it could be ASR but think it's the same when it's off, so I don't know, there isn't any resistance but it doesn't seem free to go fast

Not sure I explain it correctly but hope you'll understand and can tell me how it is for you puntoevodiesel

About MAF sensor, I'm skeptical, I mean, I wanted to clean it, but then discovered it is only about 1 year old, from manufacturing date, and even less on the car probably so I didn't clean it, tho there was nothing to clean, I just put it back, then yes maybe it's faulty, I don't know much sadly

Desired EGR Position : Target EGR position value as calculated by the engine control unit based on the readings of various sensors.
"Actual EGR position is the position assumed by the EGR, compared to the desired EGR position. The 2 parameters tend to follow each other, i.e. they should have similar values."

I had both MAF and EGR position fault code

After re reading some guide about How-to Fix the EGR on a 1.9JTD.pdf, it says "You’ll find the end of the solenoid is either stuck fast in the body, or requires a fair bit of force to move in and out. It’s on a spring so should easily pop in and out. If it doesn’t you’ll know at this point that you have found a problematic EGR!" when I dissemble it was out, I pushed in, didn't have to force at all, but it didn't come back

Evo63 i have similar lag to 2000rpm but when u put acc to the max and the left and again put to the max it's seems to be help for a while and lag is disappear. But my DPF is much worst condition than yours and we have similar problem with acceleration so maybe it is EGR? So iam waiting till you get mes info from egr. I make the same results tommorow with mes 3.1 and laptop and we are going to compare egr. BTW we are very rare on this forum [emoji57].
One more thing. Till now i don't have any errors except p6021 its low signal from alternator D+.

Evo63 said:

<SNIP>
About MAF sensor, I'm skeptical, I mean, I wanted to clean it, but then discovered it is only about 1 year old, from manufacturing date, and even less on the car probably so I didn't clean it, tho there was nothing to clean, I just put it back, then yes maybe it's faulty, I don't know much sadly
<SNIP>

Click to expand...

What mke brand is the MAF? If it has been changed just before you bought the car it indicates the previous owner had an issue the could not fix. A faulty new sensor is not unknown, "pattern" parts are worst for this. If the old part was OK a faulty replacement makes troubleshooting even harder.
Have you checked the intake air piping, intercooler etc for leaks?

Robert G8RPI.

The new MAF is a Bosch 0 281 006 054, same ref as sold on some site with my car infos

The weird thing is, old owner, had all bills for car maintenance, he did all himself, probably had a garage or something, but I had everything, even bill for a single joint, so I don't think he is the one that changed it. All service were done every year with about 15 000km, oil and filters. Then he sold the car to a garage, someone bought it, kept it less than 2 month before putting it for sell, his daughter bought a mito and preferred it to the punto, so they wanted to sell it. When I went to buy the car, I saw the mito, so thought it was true, but maybe they noticed something was wrong and decided to get rid of it...

Also, shouldn't there be a joint between the EGR and engine ? Don't remember seing one

I had a look but could have missed it, I'm no pro at all, was told a leak could be audible but it doesn't make any weird sound so I can't say for sure