General Critique on multiair 135 hp

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General Critique on multiair 135 hp

Andraz3d

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Hi all

after having Croma, I am looking at buying second hand 2011 multair 135 hp Punto.

any general thoughts on this? I got one listed, S&S sporting edition, with pretty much all the possible equipment.

I am a bit scared of the technology, especially since I will convert it to LPG (prins installation, so forced lubrication). Should I be afraid?

thank you all for your critiques and opinions.
 
Hello,

The MA 135HP is amazing engine, pleasant to drive, high torque, a great little petrol turbo engine.

I don't know a lot about LPG conversion, but I'm not convinced this is a good idea on this engine. Converted engines are always a lot of detractors, with issue of valves cooling and lubrication.
On the MA engine with a very new specific head and valve control, I really would avoid that ! Fiat produce the 77hp with LPG, but not the MA 135 ?
 
lubrication is not an issue, cooling is. At least with proper installation, lubrication should be flawless.

On cooling, yes, if the internals of the engines are not done in a way to sustain different temperature gradation, I will be screwed.

Browsing around it seems that there is a lot of converted MA alfas around, plus methane based 0.9 MA, default by fiat. I would doubt it has special cylinders and valves.

reason for fiat producing 77 1.4 engine with LPG is probably strictly economical. LPG is still a niche technology in europe.

any other comments? Much obliged.
 
Converting to LPG itself is an issue.

Even professional stop conversion on modern cars :
http://www.amrautos.co.uk/index.php/lpg-systems

I warn you about this, and about the MA is a special valve actuation, and unique.
Yes the TA 105 exist in Natural Power, but I dont know what component changes.
I checked for the 1.4 78V 77HP, and even with this traditional valvetrain, composants changes : valves are not the same for example.

I read some stories on forum, the conversion work great for some time, but after 1, 2 or 3 years problem are here.

I think you have a great advantage to do this in your country ?
 
Well, I have had 2 of my cars converted, all worked flawlessly for 200k km with the system. Both are still going strong (Honda, Skoda). Correct, both of them are fairly low tech engines (NA, honda is iVtec). Rule of a thumb should be to pick up the best technology. Prins for example. Or liquid injection tech these days (Prins also has it, but there is proper competitions in this field).

The link you posted is completely valid. Everything is correct. You do loose power and loose per liter economy, you can screw up the engine quite a bit. Especially if you are stingy when picking up the LPG parts (especially lubrication and injection system) .

Well, in my country you gain some savings with LPG. Realistically around 35-40 % on fuel cost. You also gain less problems with calaystic system (even though this article talks about problems here), oil longevity (LPG owners know that used oil on LPG engine is crazy pure) and engine (should) run a bit smoother, with lower dB. Unless you hear the injectors :).

77 1.4 factory converted engine is indeed different. The reason is the fact that proper LPG lubrication is more expensive than changing some parts and getting rid of separate fancy lubrication and injection all together. At least that is the case with 1.4 and some opel and VW engines.
 
Okay, cost savings are interesting in your country ! :)

Exact, you should do this on a low tech engine. But the 1.4 MA 135HP is not in this case, specific power of about 100HP/l and innovative valvetrain.

I think you already thought of that, you can't buy the 105 TA Natural Power in you country ? Or price in not interesting ?
 
105 MA methane is only available in 500L and Living, imho. Normal, 120 HP turbo LPG is available in 500L. 1.4 77 LPG is available in Punto. And I believe you get 120 HP 1.4 turbo in Guiletta too.

so, the only MA that has a conversion is a conversion to methane. I dont know the specifics of methane that much, so I guess we cannot judge LPG by methane conversion.
 
Did some research, it seems LPG conversion for MA is as problematic/non problematic as classical turbo engine conversion. It needs to be done by someone who is skilled and has time to fine tune it all.

what does worry me a bit with MA is the history of MA system failures. If lubricants were a problem for a lot of MA failures, LPG could just amplify that.

any comments on the MA failures in general?

tnx.
 
Did not heard a lot about MA failures. Asked my mechanic, only had one to change.

I know three MA 135/180 running, one has more three years but low mileage. Others only has just more on years, but all three are fine for the moment.
 
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