Register Login
endrop - for all your online needs
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-04-2012   #1
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 22
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Best tuning box?

What is the best and most reliable tuning box available for the punto evo 1.4t sporting 135? I'm thinking about a tmc box, but then i hear that you can get other tuning boxes off ebay for a third of the price? Does any one know if the ones off ebay are any good?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

nathanrae17 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 01-04-2012   #2
Moderator
 
Andy Monty's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 13,913
Thanks: 1164
Trader Rating: 0
Andy Monty has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Best tuning box?

I suggest you have a very good read of this thread

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-pun...-how-goes.html

__________________
What Goes Up Must Come Down.....

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
Massive gash
Quote Originally Posted by EmmaM88 View Post
Just a little touch up
Andy Monty is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 01-04-2012   #3
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Essex/Suffolk border
Posts: 82,443
Thanks: 1458
Trader Rating: 10
dave has donated!
dave is an official FF Advertiser
dave is an honorary friend of the forum :)
United Kingdom 
Re: Best tuning box?

ones ive seen on ebay only conect to the fuel rail, the TMC box conects to fuel rail and boost sensor
__________________
dave is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 01-04-2012   #4
"Spirito Di Punto"
 
TJ07's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 631
Thanks: 46
Trader Rating: 0
TJ07 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Best tuning box?

The TMC ones works well on mine. Personally I wouldn't trust the cheap eBay version.
__________________
Punto Evo Sporting 135 MultiAir Ambient White,
Red Wing Mirrors, Smoked Wind Deflectors, Team Dynamics Jet 17" alloys, Abarth Evo Exhaust & Suspension, Side Rubbing strips, Red Brake Calipers, Rear Mudflaps, Clear Rear Fog Unit, BMC Panel Filter, TMC Box, Osram Nightbreakers, Mtec Superwhite side lights, Mtec Superwhite DRL's, Chromed Indicator Bulbs, Smoked repeaters, Alloy Pedals, Armrest.
TJ07 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 01-04-2012   #5
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kdy, Fife
Posts: 648
Thanks: 25
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Best tuning box?

Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
ones ive seen on ebay only conect to the fuel rail, the TMC box conects to fuel rail and boost sensor
Dave, its a petrol which connects to the Boost sensor and the MAP sensor. Only diesels connect to the commonrail pressure sensor.

As for boxes, I will honestly say, unless you have a diesel or a T-Jet, do NOT get a tuning e stile one. It fried my ECU.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

scoop987 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-04-2012   #6
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In the sea
Posts: 2,517
Thanks: 277
Trader Rating: 0
deeyup has donated!
Push it Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Best tuning box?

Quote Originally Posted by Nick Tune it Up Lawrence View Post
Tuning boxes trick the ECU into thinking the rail isn't running properly.


That is how they work. If somebody would like to say otherwise.... they will be wrong.


If the car thinks the rail isn't getting the correct amount of diesel - it will increase the quantity injected. This will make more power (and smoke), and the smoke you see is because it isn't real tuning.


As for the 1.4 Petrol Turbo 'boxes' - I have never seen one before. But will get some books to read on how they work :-)
How can you get better fuel economy with a tuning box if all they do is increase fuel input? Wouldn't this scenario make your mpg worse?
__________________

deeyup is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-04-2012   #7
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kdy, Fife
Posts: 648
Thanks: 25
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Best tuning box?

Quote Originally Posted by deeyup View Post
How can you get better fuel economy with a tuning box if all they do is increase fuel input? Wouldn't this scenario make your mpg worse?
Increase fuel pressure then the injection pressure is increased. This is caused by the injector being able to atomise the fuel better than it would under normal conditions which means that there will be less fuel injected to the cylinder. Less fuel injected = Better MPG.

Above is for commonrail diesels.

Petrols is slightly different, as in the "tuning box" connects to the MAP sensor and boost sensor. This means that the box make the ECU think that there is less pressure in the manifold and less boost. The ECU then corrects the wastegate to increase boost and therefore increasing manifold pressure. However, this *should* increase fuel usage, but with the multi-air engine, fuel usage is reduced due to the intake valves being electronically controlled. I would like to see what happens to the MPG on a T-JET though.
Thanks deeyup thanked for this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

scoop987 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 11-04-2012   #8
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kdy, Fife
Posts: 648
Thanks: 25
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Best tuning box?

And also, a MAJOR CON for diesel tuning boxes compared to remap is that it puts a higher work load on the high pressure pump. Just to let you guys know, this is what pressurises the fuel to around 1500-2500 Bar (Around 22500 PSI - 37500 PSI, Tyre pressure is only 30 psi...). If you increase the work load on the pump, its life expectancy is significantly reduced, which should it fail under perfect working conditions at 150,000 miles, if you put a box, the pump may last 90000 or less over the same conditions.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

scoop987 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 14-04-2012   #9
Official Trader
 
TMC Motorsport's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Belfast
Posts: 273
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 1
United Kingdom 
Re: Best tuning box?

Quote Originally Posted by Nick Tune it Up Lawrence View Post
Deeyup - you dont get much economy from the diesel tuning box.

If a 'real' remapper opens a file and highlights the injection duration areas - he will show you the figure for rail pressure, and if he increases the data 'inside' that map, you will have a faster car.

I call this a 'tuning box remap' - and I have purchased files from so called tuning companies on ebay and their remaps represent this same, shoddy version of a real remap... where areas like 'drivers wish' (throttle maps), 'torque limit' (where the power is mostly controlled), 'airflow vs injection' (known as the 'smoke' map), SOI (similar to IQ/Injection Duration), along with a few minor changes here and there for a decent, all round increase in power - while maintaining good economy.

The problem with the tuning box (shoddy) remapping, and the tuning boxes, is that they trick the rail into thinking it isn't providing enough pressure.... so, the box will make the pump work harder (as explained by Scoop) and it isn't the pump I worry about from a tuning perspective - it is the injectors that leak and cause most damage - even on low tuning box settings I have seen engine problems after fitting them.

The boxes are cool, in their own light. You get people who fit boxes because their vehicle is under warranty - and they dont want to be stung for servicing if something goes wrong with the car. They generally represent the people who own 'fleet' vehicles and aren't responsible if it breaks....

Most people with common sense would have a tuning box - keep it on a low setting, and enjoy the increased power responsibly, just as people should when having their vehicle remapped/chip tuned for more power.


As for economy. The Injection Duration/Injection Quantity maps I mentioned are connected to the MPG display inside your car (and data logging, if you have this feature). When a tuning box/crap remap is done - the car 'thinks' it is still using the same amount of fuel as before - and when you cruise with the tuning box it thinks everything is REALLY AMAZING and you should see a better figure on the display.

So. People 'think' they are getting better MPG after fitting a tuning box. The more likely story is they aren't... because they are using more power (and thus more fuel), but are fooled by the MPG reading and claim the best figures on earth.

It isn't easy getting better MPG from any vehicle after tuning.

Petrol cars - FORGET IT. You cannot make a naturally aspirated engine better on fuel, but you might see a slight improvement because more torque is available, and you dont have to floor the throttle as much as before.

Petrol turbo - YOU MUST BE JOKING!! For these vehicles to make power, you need BOOST!! Boost = EXPENSIVE FUEL BILL, and when you increase the wastegate opening (along with fuel and maybe some timing advance at lower revs before the turbo kicks in... this is what makes the cars power feel more linear after writing a modified file) then you will never see better MPG. If somebody has a 1.4t fiat with a tuning box a test driving the car with and without will prove this. I would fill the tank twice with the box on and off and see the change in economy.

Turbo Diesel - YOU CAN SAVE FUEL WHEN CRUISING, BUT MOST PEOPLE WANT 40HP+++ INCREASE AND PUT THEIR FOOT DOWN MORE BECAUSE THERE IS MORE POWER THERE.... So in short - most turbo diesel engines get the same MPG as before once tuned, but if the driver changes his style the MPG figure will increase without the need for a remap.


Tyre Pressures/Tyre Choice/Less Weight in the Vehicle/Accellerating Slowly/Letting the car slow down when you see a Red Traffic Light/Only putting half a tank of fuel in the car (less weight) - will all help towards a better MPG figure.

If its power people want, vehicle tuning is cool. If it is economy, there are other things that will cut your fuel bill. Buying a Diesel/Turbo Diesel would be my advice.



Hope that helps. Sorry if I went on a bit - I dont get on this site often.
Good write up Nick however not all tuning boxes only alter rail pressure, the latest multi channel versions like ours alter turbo pressure and make live RPM based adjustments via the camshaft signal. We also have some units (Toyota/Nissan/Isuzu) which control injectors directly. Some plug in systems are very advanced, the sort of boxes you are describing are mainly bought off Ebay.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

TMC Motorsport is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-04-2012   #10
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kent
Posts: 51
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Best tuning box?

Interesting comments...

I have recently bought a second hand TMC tuning box off of a forum member for my GPS JTD, I'm not sure if it is the new or old style.

If you are just looking for a cheap way to release some extra ponies... Brilliant investment! The best bang for buck I've bought. However, since plugging the tuning box in I have noticed that the car hesitates when cold at around 2000rpm, like it's not sure how much fuel to inject. It never did this before so I can only put it down to the tuning box?

Secondly, the whole MPG thing. Since plugging it all in, my MPG figure has rocketed! I'm talking 8-10MPG on average more on the trip computer!! After reading Nick's write up though, I'm not totally convinced that this is actually the case. Is my MPG figure only up because the ECU thinks that the car is running more eco?

Maybe somebody can answer my uncertainties...

Jim
__________________
2006 Grande Punto Sporting 1.9 MJET with TMC tuning box.

No Smoke No Poke!
BigJim is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump