hi all, bit of a rant but...
after me and a friend have spent 2 days working on the panda 4x4, its pretty much at the same stage as when we started.

basically we took the gearbox off, then put a new clutch in, and changed the propshaft, made the gearstick not so wobbly, tried to fit a 'new' gearbox back on but realsied after putting it all together there was a gap left - one of the main mounting bolts that joins the engine to the box is next to the started motor, its a stub that sticks out, well on the old gearbox it has a stub, on the new one it doesnt it must have come off when it was taken off the car it was on. soooo, we thought it wouldnt matter, but after much faffing we could not get the box to join flush to the engine at that point. the other bolts make it flush but not at the back, by this time the car was basically back together so we tried to start it...
urgh, it made a horrible sound.

nowi had to just leave it at my friends and come home on the train, dont have another day off work to mend it for a week or so.

what i wanted to ask was, has anyone encountered problems like this on a geabox change, i am worried that after we take off the box, tap a thread, insert and liquid metal a threaded bar in to match what the old box has, then it may still not lie flush? is it strange that its flush on the pother bolts but not tis one, like its wonky? or does the bos just stretch and the final bolt will pull it alll together?

maybe this is a little jumbled because im going over all the possibilities in my head... reelistically all we need to do is drop the engine again, take the box off and make sure its exactly the same as my old one, then refit it and hopefully with no gap.

:bang: itt all seems really difficult now!

It sounds like the spline hasn't gone through the clutch plate and mated properly did you line it up before fitting? It should be completely mated before anything is tightened up. Did you try to use the clutch after fitting?

The bolt near the starter do you mean the 19mm or 13mm as the 13mm one often breaks when tightening up the starter if not carefull.

hi alan,
i mean the 19mm one.
we did line the clutch up, and did try it after fitting, the pedal moved the clutch ok, and we turned the drive shaft a bit to make sure it went in ok....so i think it mated alright...
im thinking that maybe it might be better when redoing it to drop the whole engine, as we only dropped the box side this time, if we dropped the whole engine it would be easier to align and see if its all going together alright. was just scared because would have to disconnect more things i'm guessing.
maybe your right though and it didnt mate properly.

i dont have the proper clutch alignment tool, we just centred it with a screwdrives and then tightened the plate/spring onto it once we thought it looked right, then it was a bit of jiggling to make the box fit onto it.

It is difficult to align the gearbox when the engine is still in but when the spline's line up should mate straight away. I believe all fire gearboxes will fit fire engines so sounds like something is caught up. If you try to tighten up the bolts if it's not right the casing will crack so be carefull.

Having changed the gearbox both ways with engine in and out it's far easier out. Although as you say much more has to be removed but it's not overly complicated and relatively simple, I do however on each occasion seem to forget to disconnect at least one wire before dropping the lot :bang: but no one's perfect

Just one thought did you remove the bottom cover plate before removal & fitting.

the bottom cover plate over the flywheel? yep we did.

from what youve said, it seems that i need to drop the whole engine, i would be much much more confident if i did that. then i need to sort out this bolt stub thats missing, and have another go. its a shame 2/3 days were sort of wasted, but i have larned so much, and we did put a new propshaft on, replace a rear drum brake piston and sort out all the rattles on the gears. now im ready to do it properly and give it another 2 or 3 days hard working. i'll pdate this when i get a chance. cheers alan!

alan, how much longer did it take to drop the engine rather than just the box? do you think 2 days solid work should be able to do it? we managed to actually get the gearbox off, new clutch in, and new gearbox on in a day, the problems just made everything drag.

panda4x4sisley said:

alan, how much longer did it take to drop the engine rather than just the box? do you think 2 days solid work should be able to do it? we managed to actually get the gearbox off, new clutch in, and new gearbox on in a day, the problems just made everything drag.

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Alan.D and myself have done the operation twice, and both times we have drop changed whatevder the issue was and re-mounted the engine within 14hours. Just depends how confident you are on making sure everything is disconnected... having a garage may even speed things up.

no garage, the first day we put up the gazeebo, and it rained all day, i wore 3 coats and waterproof troussers! by the end of the day we were absolutely covered in oil water and mud, it was actually pretty good fun..

Tony M said:

Alan.D and myself have done the operation twice, and both times we have drop changed whatevder the issue was and re-mounted the engine within 14hours. Just depends how confident you are on making sure everything is disconnected... having a garage may even speed things up.

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Speak for yourself Tony

Yours twice, mine once, Jaff's once, PU2's once but had to remove 2 engines

I had a very good mate & mechanic at Jaff's and was finished completely in about 7 hrs.

Easiest way to lift in and out is using ratchet straps & step ladder.

just about to have another 2 days of trying to sort this, wish me luck!

Good luck

hope you've got the gazebo ready ... because the weathers supposed to be pants

update, day 1:
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! engine dropped, found that there were 2 washers where there should have been one, so pulled them out, put new ones in from the other old gearbox. fitted it back together, checked over, fitted new(ish) starter motor, hoisted (jacks and straps and wood across engine bay) it back in, connected everything up, new tranny oil and gear oil and oil filter. bonnet back on, started car! it works!
only thing now is to mend where we snapped a bit of the radiator off, will have to bodge it. then the brakes which im scared of, but hope it will be ok.

8 hours and we did all that, i cant believe only this morning we had the engine out of my car and on the lawn.

will update tomorrow to tell you if the brakes work. i have driven it backwards and forwards a little bit and it seems really good. new propshaft makes no noise and gear linkages are all sweet and tight, best gearstick i have ever had in a panda, no wobble atall.

I assume it mated back together fine then

yes it did

only thing now is brakes, they just went for no reason. replaced one rear caliper cos it looked dodgey, trying to bleed other one but nipple is rusted in and rounded off, any advice?
im hoping once we bleed it through it will work but im worried its the seals on master cylinder. i only have today left!

ok, final update:
got all nipples off with a blowtorch and some patience. replaced all nipples and replaced master cylinder with a brand new one, bled through everything, brakes work perfectly now. so it must have been master cylinder i think, or the nrear caliper we replaced last time.
adjusted handbrake, topped up all fluids, and went for a drive.
the car is amazing, gears engage perfectly, its powerfull and really really good. only weird thing is that when you turn it off, it stops then tries to start again, like the ignition coil is shorting. any ideas?
its like a new panda!

Good to hear its running well, though it sounds like its running on a bit. You could try slightly retarding the timing (I think the distributor rotates forward for this), or richening the idle mixture a tad.

Mike

i fiddled with the mixture screw a while ago and have not been able to get it back to being right since. any help? turning it seems to do absolutely nothing.
im tempted to take it to a garage, which i hate because i want to do everything myself. maybe i could take it off and clean it out, would that help?

with the the timing, moving the distributor, is the difference noticable, or do you really have to know what your doing?

The mixture screws are a persistant problem on the panda carbs and if you tighten it all the way in will knacker the adjustment screw tip. I would take it to a garage that has a c/o analyser and a strobe light so you can do the timing at the same time as the mixture as it's difficult to do one without the other. RPM is als crucial to the mix and needs to be running within it's tolerences when setting the rest.

BTW just my opinion but I would never just replace one side when it comes to wheel cylinders or brakes esp as they are only about £8 and normally cheaper on ebay.

Alan.D said:

The mixture screws are a persistant problem on the panda carbs and if you tighten it all the way in will knacker the adjustment screw tip.

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errrrr oops, so that's what's wrong with trhe refurbished

Alan.D said:

I would take it to a garage that has a c/o analyser and a strobe light so you can do the timing at the same time as the mixture as it's difficult to do one without the other. RPM is als crucial to the mix and needs to be running within it's tolerences when setting the rest.

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I have heard that if you run carbed engines around a thousand RPM using light peddle action so that the main jets come into play rather than just the idle jets... still well worth taking it to a pro if it's a cause of concern.