Hi all.
I've bought a 2013 1.2l 500 and i thought I'll change the oil. The car was recently serviced, but it's new to me so didn't want to take a risk.

Anyways, when checking oil, the dipstick is oily about 10-15cm above the actual reading part. I would wipe it several times and try again, same story. I tried when the 500 is cold, tried few minutes after it was on.
I thought the mechanic overfilled it, so i couldn't get a proper reading.

Then I did service myself and filled it with exactly 2.8ltrs of oil (measured). Same story.

Any advice?

Hi

Is this a 1242cc petrol?

(Or a 1248cc diesel..)

Where did the 2.8 figure come from..?

Is that the 'oil capacity' from the FIAT manual??

That will be oil needed from assembly..

Draining a built engine will leave pockets of oil in places.

Did you pre.fill the filter?

..





EDIT: you have just said the oil level is
THE LENGTH OF YOUR HAND too high !!

With the dipstick:

Wipe it clean

Insert it so it is 100mm-10cm short of full insertion.. check the min-max portion

Wipe it clean

Insert to 50mm/5cm short

Where is the level now?

It IS possible somebody has fitted an incorrect dipstick.. but 10 INCHES too high sounds ridiculous

It's a 1.2 litre petrol. Manual states 2.5ltr for sump and 2.8ltr with oil filter.

I'm guessing the oil sticks to the oil dipstick tube, so the reading is so high.

PZ500 said:

It's a 1.2 litre petrol. Manual states 2.5ltr for sump and 2.8ltr with oil filter.

I'm guessing the oil sticks to the oil dipstick tube, so the reading is so high.

Click to expand...

What manual??

Wipe clean the dipstick.. and insert it in steps

60 short..40 short.. 20 short.. then full depth

See at what point the level appears on the min/ max section and let us know

My Panda 1.2 says 2.8l for oil and filter. This has worked for me over 11 years, so that works. Can't pre-fill the filter, as it sits horizontally, but once started it fills quickly, and stays there.

500 will have the 70hp engine, whereas mine is 60hp. When my laptop has finished its lengthy Microsoft updates, I'll check ePER to see if they use the same dipstick.

Edit:
1. It appears that Panda and 500 use the same stick.
Aircon 55191676
Non-aircon 46515985
2. Aircon stick has a different part number than non-aircon, although the tube it sits in is the same. Can't think of a reason for that, if aircon needed repositioning, I'd expect a different tube. Mine is aircon.
3. Stick appears to be 46.5cm from tip to seat. (Seat is where it sits on the top of the tube)
4. Max appears to be about 3cm from the tip, so 43.5cm from the seat.
5. Yes, those are raindrops on the background.
6. My level was on the max before I wiped it, which is good, as it has done a couple of motorway trips since the service. (Does use a little.)

Manual says 2.8ltr, so I know I didn't overfilled it.

Possible reasons for high reading:
1. Too much oil. (Looks like that one is covered)
2. Wrong dipstick (see above)
3. Big dent in bottom of sump. Unusual for this to happen without damaging the oil pickup, but is possible.
4. Reduced sump capacity. If the engine has been neglected, and old oil has congealed in the sump, it will raise the level, as this will not drain out. This is not uncommon on neglected engines, but will usually restrict oil supply, although possible that the pickup is sitting in a well. This can be checked by poking around through the drain hole, (sadly needs another drain out first of course) or a long wire down the dipstick hole, although this is less conclusive.

If sump is full of goo, it will need removing to clean, and would then be a good idea to give the engine a flush to remove deposits from oilways. Cam cover removed may give clues. Hopefully this is not the issue.

portland_bill said:

Possible reasons for high reading:
1. Too much oil. (Looks like that one is covered)
2. Wrong dipstick (see above)
3. Big dent in bottom of sump. Unusual for this to happen without damaging the oil pickup, but is possible.
4. Reduced sump capacity. If the engine has been neglected, and old oil has congealed in the sump, it will raise the level, as this will not drain out. This is not uncommon on neglected engines, but will usually restrict oil supply, although possible that the pickup is sitting in a well. This can be checked by poking around through the drain hole, (sadly needs another drain out first of course) or a long wire down the dipstick hole, although this is less conclusive.

If sump is full of goo, it will need removing to clean, and would then be a good idea to give the engine a flush to remove deposits from oilways. Cam cover removed may give clues. Hopefully this is not the issue.

Click to expand...

Car has done only 60 000kms and has been serviced every year,so I hope it's not a sump issue.

I'll check the dipstick tomorrow and see if it's same.

Thanks

Actual oil capacity depends on the filter - there have been some changes during the model run and AFAIK they are all interchangeable. Later filters are slightly smaller; this explains the discrepancy between 2.7/2.8 litres you'll find on many websites and parts guides.

Difference between min and max on the dipstick is a little over half a litre.

You always leave a little oil behind; just how much depends how well you drain it.

If you drain when the level is close to dipstick minimum, and pour in the contents of the filter, you'll likely see about 2l in the container.

If you are obsessive, refill with 2.5l, run the engine for a couple of minutes to fill the filter, and check the level; it should be somewhere near the halfway mark on the dipstick. Drive the car, let it rest overnight and top up to the max mark next morning when everything is cold and settled.

If you fill to the max point on the dipstick with a hot engine that's recently been run, you'll slightly overfill it, though not enough to cause a problem.

A friend with a then-new 500 took their own oil to their local franchised dealer at first service time; they poured the entire 4l container into the engine :bang:. Only discovered a few days later when I checked it; but despite the massive overfill, it seemingly ran without issues.

I've seen other seriously overfilled engines throw the excess up past the pistons into the combustion chambers; the amount of smoke produced was substantial and on an engine with modern emissions control systems, this could prove very expensive.

jrkitching said:

Actual oil capacity depends on the filter - there have been some changes during the model run and AFAIK they are all interchangeable. Later filters are slightly smaller; this explains the discrepancy between 2.7/2.8 litres you'll find on many websites and parts guides.

Difference between min and max on the dipstick is a little over half a litre.

Click to expand...

When I first got my Panda, it took a little while to determine the correct filter. Euro now show sizes, and crucially seal diameter, to help decide. As well as the filter size changing, the seal diameter also changes, so using the wrong one may cause massive leaks, or oil by-passing the filter.

Panda handbook says 1l between min and max, which matches my car.

A friend recently massively overfilled his sump. He managed to draw some back out the dipstick hole, but of course plastic tube is always curled, so it resists dipping into the oil. He has done about 250 miles, much on the motorway, with no apparent problems. Seems Suzuki use good seals. Suzuki Carry Van, 1.3 petrol.

The problem is that appears that oil sticks to the dipstick above the measuring bit, so I can't tell if I'm half between min and max or near max. Its all oily from the bottom of the dipstick and about 15cm up.

jrkitching said:

Actual oil capacity depends on the filter - there have been some changes

If you are obsessive, refill with 2.5l, run the engine for a couple of minutes to fill the filter, and check the level; it should be somewhere near the halfway mark on the dipstick. Drive the car, let it rest overnight and top up to the max mark next morning when everything is cold and settled.

If you fill to the max point on the dipstick with a hot engine that's recently been run, you'll slightly overfill i

Click to expand...

Thats why over the years..with new to me vehicles

I use the method above-

Measure the FlatSection of the dipstick

Start by wiping the flatsection dry

Insert dipstick partially.. leaving 3x the FlatSection remaining..
Withdraw..

You will have a smear of oil on the tip..
But need to see a uniform level front and back

No level showing use 2x FlatSection

Then 1 x FlatSection
( a level would normally be visible on the lower portion of the stick at this point)

I half.fill spin.on cannister filters..
A throwback from turbo cars

But it can get messy if you have a problem with actually installing it



It will be interesting to discover what happens tomorrow

I've got 53 reg Panda Dynamic 1.2. The Haynes manual says 2.8 litre. 2.8 will overfill it. 2.4 litre works exactly.

I had a new sump 7 years ago. 2.4 was all it needed with both sumps.

I have changed the oil dozens of times. I have taken it to the garage twice for services and both times they overfilled it.

I'm not complaining - the car is still dead reliable and cheap to run. Even at160k.

PZ500 said:

The problem is that appears that oil sticks to the dipstick above the measuring bit, so I can't tell if I'm half between min and max or near max. Its all oily from the bottom of the dipstick and about 15cm up.

Click to expand...

It's much harder to read dipsticks with today's ultra low viscosity oils.

Wipe the dipstick fully, then reinsert it. You may need to do this more than once to clear the oil from the dipstick tube.

Always keep the dipstick held vertically. If you tip it onto its side to read it, oil will flow back along it and give you a false reading.

The "springy" dipsticks seem to draw oil up the dipstick tube through something like capillary action.

To get an accurate reading, take the dipstick out, give it a good wipe (try and blot/mop oil out of the springy section) and leave it out for as long as you can - e.g. overnight if you want to check your oil first thing in the morning.

And when doing an oil change, leave the dipstick out except when you actually want to take a reading.

The other charming idiosyncrasy of Fiat group dipsticks is that you sometimes get a different reading on each side, as they go into the sump at an angle... so take the average.

Nick
www.auto500.co.uk

I've never had a problem reading my dipstick, although I normally check the oil before starting the engine, after an overnight rest, so everything that can drain, will be drained. Can't remember a problem when changing the oil, or having just run it after a service though. Can't think of a reason why OP should be having difficulty.

Regarding the oil filters, I'd agree there seem to be two filters and my factor seems to supply either indiscriminately. I've used both without any problems. The only difference seems to be that one is longer with a larger element inside, which I prefer, although the longer filter ends up quite close to the Cat heat shield fixing bolt so makes it a little awkward to fiddle my chain wrench over it. My boy's 1.4 8 valve Punto takes the same filter and so I'm always on the look out for special offers.

I find that if I fill to just below the full mark (no more than a couple of mm short) on both engines I get an oil change for both engines from a 5 litre container. Interestingly perhaps, my Haynes manuals say 2.6 litres for the Punto and 2.8 litres for the Panda - both figures with filter - and it's for the Punto that the factor most often tries to give me the "small" filter option. However it seems obvious that neither engine uses quite the stated amount for an oil change.

When I start the service I take the dip stick out, clean it and lay it on a clean part of my workbench. I stays there until I'm ready to check the full level. I always try to get as much oil as practical into any oil filter before fitting so on the Fiats I half fill the new oil filter (so there's not so much air in the system when the engine starts - you can't fill it to the top because it screws in on it's side of course) and put about 2.5 litres into the engine quickly and then let it sit for maybe 5 minutes or there abouts to percolate down into the sump. This normally puts the oil comfortably onto the bottom of the dip stick and I can just dribble a wee bit more in to get the desired level. Garages seem to routinely overfill. My Ibiza came back every time during it's warranty period slightly overfilled and my younger boy's Astra came back substantially overfilled when he had the oil changed at the "lightening Fit" place which almost stripped his sump plug threads! - It was so overfilled we actually thought it was advisable to drain some out! - which his friend at the garage did with a "sucker" tube. I don't think they check as they fill, as most of us would do, because it eats up time waiting for the level to stabilize and then add just that wee bit more to bring the level up to the max mark - I think it quite likely that the time factor interferes with draining the old oil too? I doubt if they let it "drip" for long before putting the sump plug back in and then they just whack in the recommended amount. An overfilled sump is a pretty predictable outcome really?

Reinserting the dip stick "incrementally" and measuring the uninserted length at the top is a good way of checking how overfilled a sump really is especially when you have a "bendy spring" which retains oil, like ours.

The overfilling thing is all about time - using as little time as possible is the only way some of these outfits can make any money. Quick drain, sump plug back in, then simply pour in the amount it says in the book - job done, hopefully happy punter, on to the next job.

When filling cars I always have the memory of my late father (ex development engineer from Rootes, Ford) on my shoulder warning me about the dangers of overfilling. Notably "frothing" which became an interesting phenomenon when the first motorways opened....

Nick

varesecrazy said:

It will be interesting to discover what happens tomorrow

Click to expand...

Or not..

It's an odd one. I only ever notice oil on the dipstick if I leave the dipstick in while I'm adding oil to the car on a couple of cars that have rigid dipsticks... where I guess the dipstick is exposed to the oil in the sump. The flexible dippies must be enclosed in a tube until further down, otherwise they can flop about.

So.. my tip is leave it overnight, then take the dipstick out.. wipe the b'Jesis out of it.. and then drop in it... count to 2 and then remove it smartly. Wipe it and then repeat.


But don't necessarily worry... 2.8ltrs won't kill it. Rasputin (the Younger Mrs S's 1.2) took 2.6 to MAX (from memory) so I gave up trying to get 2.8ltrs in. Even 2.8ltrs sounds like not much oil to me.. I'm sure the Cinquencento took 3.6? I can't recall now.

If the dipstick is sopping wet with oil all the way up to MAX +15cm, then we need a photo... since this would be a "phenomenon".


Ralf S.