Technical Engine replacement

Gardeneraceae · Jul 5, 2020

Hi all. I recently bought a 2009 Panda 1.1 Active from a dealer in Henfield and on driving it home In the evening the heater went cold and the temp gauge haywire. I was in a rural location and had to drive gingerly for a few miles to reach a garage and found the car had no coolant. I filled up with water and drove home. I Flushed and filled up with the recommended coolant next day but the gauge continued to show overheating. I notified the dealer and he arranged to have it collected and the head gasket was replaced. Almost immediately on driving again the temp gauge played up a bit but then seemed to settle down. I drove about 20 miles, parked up and when I came back the car would not start. The AA took us home and I informed the dealer who again had it collected and diagnosed the engine needed replaced. The car had quite low mileage on it, about 26000, so I told him I either wanted the engine reconditioned or a replacement with a lower mileage similar to the original - for obvious reasons. He did not respond to my messages about this so when the work was eventually done and I went to collect the car I recorded our conversation. He did not have the mileage or engine number available for me and I told him I would be unhappy about driving it away without a commitment from him that he would get me the mileage and documentation for the replacement engine within the next fortnight. He assured me that he would get me all of the this and if there was a serious difference in the mileage he would negotiate some kind of compensation. That was six months ago and guess what, after repeated requests he still can’t come up with the mileage or docs for the engine. What I would like to know if where to find the engine number on the engine and if I can do a search for mileage on this? I am initiating a small claim against him for a full refund since the goods are not as described and I am unable to update the DVLA on the replacement engine details.

jackwhoo · Jul 5, 2020

Gardeneraceae said:
Hi all. I recently bought a 2009 Panda 1.1 Active from a dealer in Henfield and on driving it home In the evening the heater went cold and the temp gauge haywire. I was in a rural location and had to drive gingerly for a few miles to reach a garage and found the car had no coolant. I filled up with water and drove home. I Flushed and filled up with the recommended coolant next day but the gauge continued to show overheating. I notified the dealer and he arranged to have it collected and the head gasket was replaced. Almost immediately on driving again the temp gauge played up a bit but then seemed to settle down. I drove about 20 miles, parked up and when I came back the car would not start. The AA took us home and I informed the dealer who again had it collected and diagnosed the engine needed replaced. The car had quite low mileage on it, about 26000, so I told him I either wanted the engine reconditioned or a replacement with a lower mileage similar to the original - for obvious reasons. He did not respond to my messages about this so when the work was eventually done and I went to collect the car I recorded our conversation. He did not have the mileage or engine number available for me and I told him I would be unhappy about driving it away without a commitment from him that he would get me the mileage and documentation for the replacement engine within the next fortnight. He assured me that he would get me all of the this and if there was a serious difference in the mileage he would negotiate some kind of compensation. That was six months ago and guess what, after repeated requests he still can’t come up with the mileage or docs for the engine. What I would like to know if where to find the engine number on the engine and if I can do a search for mileage on this? I am initiating a small claim against him for a full refund since the goods are not as described and I am unable to update the DVLA on the replacement engine details.

Hi,
sorry to hear of your problems.

To answer one of your questions
There is absolutely no way of tracking the miles an engine has done from its engine number.

Good luck.

Jack

koalar · Jul 5, 2020

26K 1.1L 8v engine not repairable ???

if with the overheating I find it hard to believe.

bought it from a dealer on driving it home ???

headgasket replaced and still failed ???

would I true this dealer ??

Gardeneraceae · Jul 5, 2020

I’m actually wondering if he even replaced the engine at all. That’s partly why I would like to find the engine number and cross reference it against the log book. Surely he wouldn’t be that stupid??

Gardeneraceae · Jul 5, 2020

jackwhoo said:
Hi,
sorry to hear of your problems.

To answer one of your questions
There is absolutely no way of tracking the miles an engine has done from its engine number.

Good luck.

Jack

Thanks Jack. I thought so.

jackwhoo · Jul 5, 2020

Gardeneraceae said:
Thanks Jack. I thought so.

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento/149109-fire-engine-number-position.html

dave · Jul 5, 2020

you want to hope he dont find this post as you drove gingerly for a few miles to reach a garage, when the car had over heated when you should have stopped there and then, you have made a minor fault end up killing the engine, voiding the warranty.

portland_bill · Jul 5, 2020

Gardeneraceae said:
... That was six months ago

With that time passed, you may well have lost much chance of recompense.

Ideally you should have rejected the car the next day.

Wherever he obtained a replacement engine, if details were not available then, they won't be available later. If a breaker had recorded details of age/mileage they would have been available at time of sale, after that, probably binned.

On the other hand, FIRE engines are generally long-lived, and almost bulletproof, coolant loss or lack of oil changes are their only killers.
If this one is working fine, it'll probably outlast the rest of the car, as long as you ensure coolant is not lost, and servicing is done on time.

DaveMcT · Jul 6, 2020

If the worst comes to the worst you could get a replacement engine for not huge expense

Here is one that's complete (I know its a 1.2 but that's a better engine anyway). Ive included it because everything is there except starter and generator.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-GRA...702916&hash=item2f3f1e048e:g:RlEAAOSw2fheYRYg

This is a 1.1
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-B...=164154089558a9b2b8a209244069a84f57a47aee118c

A3jeroen · Jul 7, 2020

Unless he virginized the original ECU, the dealer had to use the ECU that came with the replacement engine. MES could read the stored mileage in the ECU.
Still, if the car performs as it should... why bother?

gr J

varesecrazy · Jul 7, 2020

A member was offering a free 1.1 on here a couple of weeks ago..

irc · Jul 7, 2020

A3jeroen said:
Unless he virginized the original ECU, the dealer had to use the ECU that came with the replacement engine.

Not if was a like-for-like swap... or am I missing something?

koalar · Jul 7, 2020

A3jeroen said:
Unless he virginized the original ECU, the dealer had to use the ECU that came with the replacement engine. MES could read the stored mileage in the ECU.
Still, if the car performs as it should... why bother?

gr J

not sure I understand why a like for like engine swap requires the ECU to be virginized. I must be missing something obvious.

change to different type of engine require insurance, DVLA, ECU and isint worth the bother in my opinion.

A3jeroen · Jul 7, 2020

Scratch that. I was thinking wrong

gr J

Gardeneraceae · Jul 18, 2020

Thanks for all the info everyone. I did actually ask to return the car but he ignored this and said he would get it fixed no problem. I contacted Syntiq who sold this engine on EBay and they have given me a mileage on removal of the engine. That is great although it is 20000 more than the original one. I’m now discovering that DVLA require me to update my V5 with the new engine number. Syntiq say this 187A1.000 but the engine number on the current V5 is simply a 7 digit number. What I’m trying to figure out is are engine codes and engine numbers two different things I.e. dies the code identify the engine model and the number a unique serial number specific to the individual engine? If so and I don’t have the unique serial number does that risk my vehichle registration being withdrawn?

Gardeneraceae · Jul 18, 2020

dave said:
you want to hope he dont find this post as you drove gingerly for a few miles to reach a garage, when the car had over heated when you should have stopped there and then, you have made a minor fault end up killing the engine, voiding the warranty.

Not sure what else I could have done stuck in horizontal rain on a country road in December with the heating packed up. ?

Gardeneraceae · Jul 18, 2020

Thanks for all the info everyone. I did actually ask to return the car but he ignored this and said he would get it fixed no problem. I contacted Syntiq who sold this engine on EBay and they have given me a mileage on removal of the engine. That is great although it is 20000 more than the original one. I’m now discovering that DVLA require me to update my V5 with the new engine number. Syntiq say this 187A1.000 but the engine number on the current V5 is simply a 7 digit number. What I’m trying to figure out is are engine codes and engine numbers two different things I.e. dies the code identify the engine model and the number a unique serial number specific to the individual engine? If so and I don’t have the unique serial number does that risk my vehichle registration being withdrawn?

jrkitching · Jul 18, 2020

187A1.000 is just the engine type.

There will also be a unique serial number stamped into the casting; that is the number that needs to be changed on your V5C.

jrkitching · Jul 18, 2020

Gardeneraceae said:
Not sure what else I could have done stuck in horizontal rain on a country road in December with the heating packed up. &#55358;&#56694;

If the heating ever stops working, stop as soon as you safely can and check the coolant level. If you're unable to resolve the issue at the roadside, then call a recovery service and have the car towed to a place where it can be attended to. Whatever it costs, it will be cheaper than the alternative, which is to turn the engine into a lump of scrap metal.

portland_bill · Jul 18, 2020

The actual engine serial number is usually poorly stamped and difficult to read.
I'm not sure where to look, but search these forums for 'engine number' and see what pops up.
It may need careful cleaning and viewing with a torch and mirror while standing on your head.

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