Hi all,

I've done the research and believe that I've got a bad slave cylinder.

So I had 2 cars... the Panda 100 and a BMW, both were on sale, whichever sold first I kept the other... the BMW sold!

Took the Panda out for the first time today after having it sit on the drive for a few weeks and very much enjoyed it. Then the clutch started squeaking horrendously.

Got someone to sit in the car while I listened in the engine bay. Squeak came from the passenger side. Saw something moving so took a picture. Believe this to be the slave cylinder. Please can anyone confirm before I order the part? Also it looks like someone used a cable tie at some point... why?!

Thanks!

What age panda?

Some are plastic..failure is not unheard of

Our 04 is on all original..

Use ePER to chech part numbers.


Cable tie: where??

Charlie

It's a 2009 100HP. It does look like a plastic slave cylinder. Not too expensive to buy (£30 or less from EuroCarParts) and I believe fitting is straightforward.

Cable ties is the white thing sticking out.

Hi narbles. When we bought our 1.2 Panda dynamic eco 2010 just over a year ago we had the same problem. The noise really is loud isn't it. People would turn round to look at traffic lights and pedestrian crossings! I tracked it to the slave cylinder by having Mrs Jock work the clutch pedal whilst I investigated with a length of tubing in my ear and moving the other end around. I've never heard a slave cylinder squeak like this before (ours is a plastic one) and couldn't really make up my mind if it was the cylinder or the release arm mechanism. Anyway, as the clutch was still working fine and I could make the noise go away for a wee while by spraying silicone lube under the dust cap, I was going to leave it for better weather before doing it. Then the clutch itself wore out so I got the our local Fiat indie garage to do the whole job including a new cylinder. No more noises!

That bit of cable tie is, I think, a restrainer which holds the piston in the cylinder whilst in storage. it is cut after installation to free the piston to do it's job.

I had been keeping an eye on our Panda for some weeks before buying so she had been lying for some time before I bought her - as you say yours was. Wonder if it's down to lack of use that this squeak develops?

PS I've had good results from Mick at Shop4parts - if you want a recommendation for spares.

That's great thank you for the recommendation.

Well I think the clutch is good, it seems strong with no slipping or crunching when going through the gears. May monitor it for a bit as you did.

When you sprayed silicone grease under the dust cap was this in the area I pictured? How long was it effective for?

Sorry didnt see the pics..

Spray lube is worth ..a shot

It was Comma brand silicon spray I used specifically chosen because it claims on the tin to be compatible with rubber (amongst other things) so shouldn't harm the seals in the cylinder.

Where to spray? looking at your picture you can see the plastic of the cylinder and the metal push rod which actuates the release arm. In the middle is the rubber dust seal (some might call it a boot) which stops dust and dirt getting into the bore of the cylinder. You can see the bit of white "cable tie" on the outside. you need to get the lubricant under that boot. Probably stick the spray extension up between the rod and boot? I found it quietened it for a number of days at a time.

The squeaks might be due to water in the brake fluid used in the clutch. The clutch hydraulics are pretty weak TBH and struggle to out-last a clutch.

When you fit a new slave cylinder, DONT try to undo the QD pipe joint under the wheel arch. They corrode internally and seize solid. Just pull the hairpin clip from the pipe connection at the cylinder and plug in the new cylinder.

Keep the new slave cylinder hydraulic pipe. Then when the clutch does eventually go, you can fit a new master cylinder and have a new pipe from end to end. I wrapped my (new) QD connector in denso tape to keep the weather out.

DaveMcT said:

When you fit a new slave cylinder, DONT try to undo the QD pipe joint under the wheel arch. They corrode internally and seize solid. Just pull the hairpin clip from the pipe connection at the cylinder and plug in the new cylinder.

.

Click to expand...

that is bad advice. first try the quick connector, if that doesnt work, resort to the connection at the slave cylinder.

my quick connector was fine. it wasnt quite as easy as a new one, but it came apart with the little bit of fiddling.
using the quick connector means you dont lose any fluid and saves you having to bleed the system afterwards.

i appreciate 9 times out of 10 it may not come apart, but it is there for a reason and is by far the best way to seperate the slave and master cylinder.

Then again bleeding the system and getting rid of the (very) old fluid in it, is a good idea anyway (at least according to me).

gr J

A3jeroen said:

Then again bleeding the system and getting rid of the (very) old fluid in it, is a good idea anyway (at least according to me).

gr J

Click to expand...

true, but i have found they dont bleed that well as fluid tends to leak past the grub screw rather than come out of the bleed nipple.

if you have an issue with the hydralic system you will quickly know if another part of the system is at fault if your not messing about bleeding it. trying to bleed it could cause more issues in some cases.

as DaveMcT has said previously, when the slave goes, the master cylinder is not long behind so its often worth changing both which will all have fresh fluid in anyway.

dac69er said:

true, but i have found they dont bleed that well as fluid tends to leak past the grub screw rather than come out of the bleed nipple.

if you have an issue with the hydralic system you will quickly know if another part of the system is at fault if your not messing about bleeding it. trying to bleed it could cause more issues in some cases.

as DaveMcT has said previously, when the slave goes, the master cylinder is not long behind so its often worth changing both which will all have fresh fluid in anyway.

Click to expand...

Bleeding systems where the master cylinder is not in it's first flush of youth can often end in "tears". As has been said before in this forum under normal use the piston rarely goes more than half way down the bore which leaves the "unused" half to collect contamination and corrosion on it's walls. Then, whilst bleeding, the rubbers get damaged as the pedal is repeatedly plunged to the floor! You can avoid this by never pushing the piston more than half way down as you bleed but often this makes getting all the air out next to impossible!

Many years ago I bought a Gunson Eezibleed. Wonderful, relatively cheap, tool (currently about £20 at Halfords). Uses the air pressure in the spare tyre to drive fluid through in one continuous stream so makes getting the air out an easy one man job. I found it particularly useful on my boy's Punto which has a "helper" spring on it's clutch pedal - so without the returning action of the clutch diapragm spring the pedal stays on the floor if the bleed nipple is open. You must remember to reduce the spare tyre pressure to about 10 psi before use though. (consult instructions). If you don't the pressure may well blow the supply to reservoir pipe off which will spray all the brake fluid in the Gunson bottle all over the car! Thankfully I haven't done this yet - I check the connections very carefully before use each time. Don't let this put you off though, I've used mine many many times without incident.

dac69er said:

that is bad advice. first try the quick connector, if that doesnt work, resort to the connection at the slave cylinder.

My quick connector was fine. it wasnt quite as easy as a new one, but it came apart with the little bit of fiddling.
using the quick connector means you dont lose any fluid and saves you having to bleed the system afterwards.

I appreciate 9 times out of 10 it may not come apart, but it is there for a reason and is by far the best way to seperate the slave and master cylinder.

Click to expand...

Fair comment, the connector should be tried first. However, UK climate and road salt almost guarantee it will seize. Mine was so badly corroded (I cut it apart to look) a leak was just a question of time.

The QD connector is probably there for factory purposes. The cylinders arrive prefilled with fluid - all the fitter has to do is plug them together. The same would apply in the garage when fitting a new system. No bleeding is needed.

A garage mechanic who knows these cars would not offer to replace just the slave cylinder because the car owner would very likely be dissatisfied. The parts are not cheap at around £130 but if one end is old and tired the other wont be much better.

If anyone really wants to replace the slave cylinder only, try the QD connector but don't force it. Unplugging the old line from the cylinder and bleeding the system is easy enough. BUT it probably wont be the end of the story.

DO NOT DISPOSE OF THE NEW SLAVE HYDRAULIC LINE.

The issue is that a slave old enough to be noisy** has a master that's old enough to be pulling air past the seals. Soon enough it will be masquerading as a failed clutch and you'd be needing that slave pipe when you replace the master cylinder.

** Its very likely that a noisy slave cylinder is due to the clutch being near end of life and straining the release mechanism.

Thanks all for the replies. Certainly a lot to consider it seems! Have already ordered a new slave cylinder and was thinking of doing a full flush including brake fluid. The slave piston/arm thing looks in a fairly bad way and the rubber boot is is split completely in two!

Sounds like if i have symptoms of a bad clutch in future could just be the master then

If you suspect the clutch and the master cylinder is old, you may as well replace the master and the slave. That might solve the clutch problem but if not (and you do need a new clutch), you would also need new hydraulics anyway so its not wasted work/money.

From a bit of quick research (and I'm not sure I've found the right information) - doing the master cylinder is going to be a whole lot more work?

Edit: I've got the slave cylinder ready to go but thinking this job is a bit bigger than first anticipated? You mentioned QD pipe - either using/not using this - no idea what this is! In my head I had this as a job where you disconnect a couple of lines then bleed the system.. nothing too major. Was going to flush through the brake system at the same time.

The master and slave cylinders are sold with the pipes attached and prefilled with fluid. They are joined by a solid aluminium push connection that just clicks together.

The master cylinder bolts to the bulkhead with a push on ball joint that clips to the brake pedal. You remove the old one by carefully levering the ball joint off it's ball peg.

The pipe is a bit fiddly to extract (IIRC there are three clips) but it's not especially hard to do. The QD connector has a plastic clip that attaches it to the inner wheel arch. Access is easier with the near side wheel removed.

If you are changing the slave because it's old and tired you need to check the QD connector comes apart. It is located on the engine side of the near side wheel arch above the driveshaft. It has a plastic ring you have to push inwards to release the internal clips. If all is ok, it will pop apart and there should be no fluid loss. If that works all you have to do is fit the new slave and plug it into the QD connector.

If it refuses to separate or indeed if it leaks when opened (= corrosion), you have a choice -

(a) Don't replace anything. Bleed the clutch system until the fluid is flowing clean. Job done until it needs bleeding again.

(b) Unplug the new slave from its pipe. It has a hairpin style relating clip. Unplug the old slave from it's pipe and catch the fluid as it escapes. Fit new slave and plug the existing pipe in place. Refit the retaining clip. Keep a magnet close to the job because the clip is easy to lose. Now bleed the system.
DO NOT LOSE YOU NEW SLAVE CYLINDER PIPE.

(c) Bite the bullet and replace the lot. IMO if the slave is old, the mater will be just as old so is very likely to be pulling air past it's seals. Replacement is the only available fix. It's a bit fiddly, but far easier than many other common tasks on the car.

Brilliant, that makes me feel much more comfortable. Master cylinders seem reasonably cheap, quick search turned one up at £37 so I may well just do both while I'm in there.

Thanks so much to you and everyone else that has responded so far!

narbles said:

Brilliant, that makes me feel much more comfortable. Master cylinders seem reasonably cheap, quick search turned one up at £37 so I may well just do both while I'm in there.

Thanks so much to you and everyone else that has responded so far!

Click to expand...

If you can get the correct master complete with pipe for £37 then grab it. Mine cost double that and some were over £100.

The LuK brand is used by OEM, though its not possible to say if this is identical to OEM.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-PANDA-169-1-4-Clutch-Master-Cylinder-2006-on-LuK-Top-Quality-Replacement/333103412308?fits=Car+Make%3AFiat%7CModel%3APanda&epid=11021717338&hash=item4d8e82b454:g:fIcAAOSwajRcflJJ

It's this one:
https://www.mister-auto.co.uk/clutch-master-cylinder/sachs/6284-600-672/

Doesn't look like it's got the full pipe though?